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Thread: Modern Iranians are not Ancient Iranians! There is a difference!

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    It's a Gedrosia calculator. The last one in the list.

    I am not Pashtun/Tajik. I think you may be thinking of Rukha.
    I am Saraiki-Baloch, Kashmiri, Kho, Uzbek.

    My uncle and I were in the original run when Kurd made the calculator, so it's likely there is a calculator effect going on. Because those of us in the run score pretty high ASI relative to those who weren't in the run.
    Either way, I am going to score more ASI than a Pathan or Tajik any day.
    Yeah, thanks for clarifying. I certainly agree with you, and sorry for the confusion.

    One last thing, why do Punjabis from Lahore score such a high degree of ASI, which is even comparable to Tamils and many other South Indians, whereas Punjabi Jatts, Gujjars, Rajputs, etc., do not, and are more in line with Sindhis and to a lesser extent, Pathans? Is there a reason for this discrepancy? Could it be that the PJL samples are those of Chamars?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Yeah, thanks for clarifying. I certainly agree with you, and sorry for the confusion.

    One last thing, why do Punjabis from Lahore score such a high degree of ASI, which is even comparable to Tamils and many other South Indians, whereas Punjabi Jatts, Gujjars, Rajputs, etc., do not, and are more in line with Sindhis and to a lesser extent, Pathans? Is there a reason for this discrepancy? Could it be that the PJL samples are those of Chamars?
    Punjabi Lahore samples are very mixed samples. Majority of them are lower caste converts who converted to Islam to escape the caste system in Hinduism. Hence they have higher ASI or native south asian ancestry. Good amount of SA muslims, are converts from lower castes. The same thing that's happening nowdays, but this time its christianity.
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

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  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Punjabi Lahore samples are very mixed samples. Majority of them are lower caste converts who converted to Islam to escape the caste system in Hinduism. Hence they have higher ASI or native south asian ancestry. Good amount of SA muslims, are converts from lower castes. The same thing that's happening nowdays, but this time its christianity.
    Thanks, are Gujjars high caste? I used to think that Gujjars were low caste converts until I saw their DNA results, and they're similar to Brahmins, Jatts, and Rajputs. It is pretty surprising, indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Thanks, are Gujjars high caste? I used to think that Gujjars were low caste converts until I saw their DNA results, and they're similar to Brahmins, Jatts, and Rajputs. It is pretty surprising, indeed.
    Gujjars, jats, kamboj, Sainis etc never were part of Hindu caste system, they have their own hierarchy. Hence their results are different. They popped up in SA with different waves of invasions and migrations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Gujjars, jats, kamboj, Sainis etc never were part of Hindu caste system, they have their own hierarchy. Hence their results are different. They popped up in SA with different waves of invasions and migrations.
    Alright, thanks for clarifying. Appreciate it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoran View Post
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 36.11
    2 CHG_EEF 22.86
    3 NATUFIAN 14.38
    4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 12.51
    5 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 5.54
    6 EHG 4.81
    7 SIBERIAN 1.79
    8 PAPUAN 1.26
    9 SUB_SAHARAN 0.74
    Do you know why Iranians have less Neolithic Iranian DNA than Zoroastrians, and the recent Iran sample as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xehanort View Post
    Do you know why Iranians have less Neolithic Iranian DNA than Zoroastrians, and the recent Iran sample as well?
    Because Zoroastrians mixed less during introduction of Islam to the region because of their religion. Hence they preserved the native admixture more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Because Zoroastrians mixed less during introduction of Islam to the region because of their religion. Hence they preserved the native admixture more.
    I know but, how admixed do you think modern Iranians are compared to Ancient Iranians?

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    It isn't going to be due to post-Islamic admixture; we have historical data showing Arab introgression into the plateau was limited to the Sassanid administrative or royal classes, many of whom were killed or fled Iran in subsequent revolts. That is another strange misconception about Iran's Medieval history which refuses to die (we never needed genetics to confirm this).

    Zoroastrians are more Iran_N than Iranians from the north because of autochthonous prehistoric heritage patterns (I explained this in my earlier post). Iranians from Bandar Abbas, Shiraz and Balochis are all more Iran_N shifted than Iranians from the northwest (including Kurds) and the Caspian coastline (Mazandaranis). The further northwest you go in Iran, the more EEF-related ancestry. The further southeast, the more Iran_N. Formal stats, from both genome bloggers and publications, show that trend.

    There appears to be variation among the Chalcolithic Iranian samples regarding the proportions of Iran_N and EEF-related ancestry, so the bulk of the difference between your generic Mazandarani and Zoroastrian could be comfortably attributed to the above.

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  13. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    It isn't going to be due to post-Islamic admixture; we have historical data showing Arab introgression into the plateau was limited to the Sassanid administrative or royal classes, many of whom were killed or fled Iran in subsequent revolts. That is another strange misconception about Iran's Medieval history which refuses to die (we never needed genetics to confirm this).

    Zoroastrians are more Iran_N than Iranians from the north because of autochthonous prehistoric heritage patterns (I explained this in my earlier post). Iranians from Bandar Abbas, Shiraz and Balochis are all more Iran_N shifted than Iranians from the northwest (including Kurds) and the Caspian coastline (Mazandaranis). The further northwest you go in Iran, the more EEF-related ancestry. The further southeast, the more Iran_N. Formal stats, from both genome bloggers and publications, show that trend.

    There appears to be variation among the Chalcolithic Iranian samples regarding the proportions of Iran_N and EEF-related ancestry, so the bulk of the difference between your generic Mazandarani and Zoroastrian could be comfortably attributed to the above.
    Thanks, and I certainly agree with your observation here. However, some Iranian populations do seem to have significant foreign admixture, although, none of it seems to be Arab, of course. The Arab genetic impact on Iran was virtually nil, and the Jewish impact could have been greater as many Jews converted to Islam after the arrival of the Arabs, and likely intermingled with the local population. Jews are shown to have more Semitic/Arabian admixture than other Iranian populations, likely due to their origin as a Semitic peoples. Another population which is significantly mixed is the Bandari people, who are outlier in the Iranian gene pool due to their significant South Asian and African admixture. Thus, it is my understanding that Iranian Jews, Iranian Bandaris, and even Iranian Arabs cannot be considered an wholly Iranic population. The same can be said about Iranian Azeris and Iranian Turkmen, both of which have significant Mongoloid admixture, although it is much more limited in the Azeris (5 to 15%). Azerbaijanis from Azerbaijan are certainly a whole different case, as they are more similar to Armenians and Georgians. Overall, however, I feel that the Iranian population has largely remained stable, but there does seem to be an influx of South Asian and Mongoloid genes since the 14th century, minor African admixture as well in some cases (Of course the South Asian could be hidden Neolithic Iranian admixture). I appreciate your reply! I was also wondering though, aren't many Caspians mixed with Georgians and Armenians? I remember that Shah Abbas imported a lot of Georgian and Armenians into his empire, although at the time this would have account for only about 2% of Iran's population (200,000 out of 12,000,000). Unfortunately, the Iranian population declined significantly following the fall of the Safavid dynasty and the rise of Nader Shah and his wars of conquest (12,000,000 to 1,400,000).
    Last edited by Xehanort; 10-12-2017 at 06:59 PM.

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