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Thread: My father's Y-DNA results

  1. #1
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    My father's Y-DNA results

    I got my father's Y12 results back today.



    Matches (50)

    Page 1


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    Matches Maps



    Y-DNA Haplotree



    Y-DNA Migration Maps



    Y-DNA Haplogroup Origins




    Y-DNA - Standard Y-STR Values
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 09-13-2017 at 04:22 PM.

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  3. #2
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    My father's autosomal DNA is here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...s-Sivas-Turkey

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     Afshar (09-13-2017)

  5. #3
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    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty
    Do you have any tatar ancestry?
    Member basmaci is also hg N, seems like there is a lot of N in Turkey
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afshar View Post
    Do you have any tatar ancestry?
    Member basmaci is also hg N, seems like there is a lot of N in Turkey
    My father has no Tatar ancestry.

    To be honest Cinnioğlu's famous study (Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia) was misleading, it was not based exclusively on ethnic Turks.

    http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Cinnioglu2004.pdf
    "A total of 359 samples were from blood banks, 61 from paternity clinics and 103 from staff and students enrolled at Istanbul University."

    Haplogroup N is not rare at all judging from FTDNA Turkish projects, it is close to 10%.
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 09-14-2017 at 09:31 AM.

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  8. #5
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    Any 12 marker test will probably be able to assign you to a very ancient haplogroup - in your case haplogroup N. But the resolution of 12 markers, the average false positive rate is from 80 to 90 %. That yields a very inaccurate view of analysis performed based on FTDNA matches. At 25 markers, accuracy is dramatically increased to 40 to 60 % - but 50 % accuracy is still not very desirable. At 37 markers, accuracy improves to 60 to 80 % which is the first resolution that should be used for any detailed analysis. 67 markers does not improve accuracy that much but has many other extremely important factors that should be considered. 67 markers produces 75 to 90 % accuracy - so even at this level, it is somewhat random how much accuracy you will find.

    The most important reason for 67 markers, there are other types of analysis that require this level of resolution. YSNP prediction at 1,500 to 2,500 years can yield 90 to 99 % accuracy. This is where 80 to 90 % of 67 markers testers can predict YSNPs in the 1,500 to 2,500 year range. At 37 markers, only around 5 to 10 percent of 37 markers can be predict YSNPs. Also, if you have 100 plus testers at 67 markers predicting a YSNP AND you have 20 to 50 YSNP branches below the predictable YSNP AND you have extensively tested YSNPs, charting becomes feasible at 60 to 95 % accuracy (depending the signature size used for prediction). Unfortunately, only around 10 to 20 % of current testers can really accurately chart since many factors are required for ideal conditions with current technology. Even with very favorable factors, only 10 to 80 % can not be charted driven by the amount of YSNP testing that is present.

    Here are characteristics that allow robust charting: 1) being part of predictable single signature YSNP in the 1,500 to 2,500 year range that is very prolific in offspring is probably the most important factor. Regardless of geographical origins, the population that won battles vs. lost battles ended up with more offspring which increases the sample size of living testers. 2) The amount testing being done (percentage of population tested) is the second largest factor. But this requires large amounts of funding and there is very geographically bias in this factor. Testing of Asians is probably the most challenging due very small numbers of testers but very large populations. Surprisingly, Arabs are pretty well tested. However, higher YSTR resolution and YSNP testing is not as robust. Also, many Arab FTNDA projects are private in nature which limits analysis across a much broader crowd. Former Soviet countries and Scandinavian testers are now testing at about the same rates of western European which is very encouraging - but resolutions and YSNP testing is not as robust - but the groundwork for serious progress has now started.

    Then there is just plain random statistical variation that messes things up for many testers. The more isolated you YSTRs are, the better results that you will have in be able to make accurate analysis. This is unfortunately is very random in nature across all geographies. My parents are both ends of the spectrum of random luck. My father's line is Irish (R-L226) which was associated with the first Irish king to unite/conquer the entire island of Ireland. We now have 570 testers at 67 markers, 90 Big Y tests, 90 SNP pack tests that are L226 only, etc. I am now able to accurately chart 81 % of the 570 testers.

    My mother's line is just the opposite and barely survived to the present (even though I have published a family history that has 7,500 descendants). It is stuck at DF27 for years which is very old. I kept testing individual new branches under DF27 but they came back negative. However, it has been over a year since my last testing spree and that new elusive branch could have been discovered recently - but it will be very small in scope. This was the Brooks surname - so every fourth Brooks tester is new genetic cluster - living by a brook (stream) just does not help tie people together. Through YDNA research, I am now convinced my Brooks ancestor that was born in 1765 was probably adopted and was probably a Wade instead of Brooks. It is pretty sad that this has dramatically diminished my interest on this line. Being very less prolific in descendants and having an adoption in 1765. The only Brooks that are related with is the 1765 ancestor and one of his brothers - before that, I need to start over again with Wade research (not even very positive that this adoption is certain but is very likely).
    Last edited by RobertCasey; 09-13-2017 at 10:12 PM.

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  10. #6
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    Your post is helpful even for a noob like me, thanks.

  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    My father has no Tatar ancestry.

    To be honest Cinnioğlu's famous study (Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia) was misleading, it was not based exclusively on ethnic Turks.

    http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Cinnioglu2004.pdf
    "A total of 359 samples were from blood banks, 61 from paternity clinics and 103 from staff and students enrolled at Istanbul University."

    Haplogroup N is not rare at all judging from FTDNA Turkish projects, it is close to 10%.
    well the aim.of the cinnioglus paper was not identify the genetic structure of ethnic turks but Turkis citizens. It was all about Turkey. Thus its objective but sample dsitrubition is still need to be discussed as far as there are low sample sizes in egean and medeterenian region.

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  13. #8
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    Additionaly your matches are mostly from central asian and russian region which show the recent ancestry from turkic migration. Its means there is low diversity in anatolia as far as most of the N samples from turkey match with each other. But it doesnt mean high frequency. On the other hand there are much more J and G samples who have lesser matches due to high diversity. Which means much more older shared ancestry in anatolia.

  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    Additionaly your matches are mostly from central asian and russian region which show the recent ancestry from turkic migration. Its means there is low diversity in anatolia as far as most of the N samples from turkey match with each other. But it doesnt mean high frequency. On the other hand there are much more J and G samples who have lesser matches due to high diversity. Which means much more older shared ancestry in anatolia.
    I think Alkaevli is pretty lucky to have those matches on YDNA even with 12 markers.
    My question would be; if his YDNA matches partly overlap with his autosomal matches.
    If so I would read this as a sign of relatively recent migration.

    In my case for YDNA I have just one match from Turkey who is irrelevant for the reasonable time frame.

    I wouldn't expecting hundreds of matches of R1a from Turkey but in this way I feel pretty isolated in terms of YDNA data for the region.

  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    well the aim.of the cinnioglus paper was not identify the genetic structure of ethnic turks but Turkis citizens. It was all about Turkey. Thus its objective but sample dsitrubition is still need to be discussed as far as there are low sample sizes in egean and medeterenian region.
    That's true, but his paper is used as a reference for Turkish Y-DNA even today, he could have categorized the samples by ethnicity, like Grugni et al. 2012 (Iranian Y-DNA):

     



    Most of the conclusions about Turkish Y-DNA is based on his paper, not to mention the fact that West Anatolia/Aegea (n=30/523), South Anatolia (n=33/523) and Western Black Sea (n=29/523) regions were underrepresented.

    This pie chart from Oghuz Turks project is based on the results of 84 Anatolian Turks who have been tested, I think we can assume that hg N seems to be a significant Y-DNA marker among ethnic Turks although the sample size is currently insufficient to draw firm conclusions. My prediction is that the proportion of hg N will decrease and then be stabilized around 8-9% as the sample size grows larger.

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