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Thread: Haryana jatts European?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    You are still referring to Harappa. Yamnaya score 30% Baloch/Gerdosia on it btw. Looking at Iran_Hotu, he is very ANE rich and this area is more closer Central Asia. Middle Eastern is a modern construct, but yeah the ethnogenesis of these people occurs in the Iranian plateau or nearby regions of Central Asia. Also these people themselves are unique compared to Natufians and Anatolian Farmers , roughly 40-50% of their genome is coming from MA1 like peoples living in North Central/North Asia.
    so did they test their skeletons? if so, how many of these ancient people's dna has been tested? sorry I am not up to date on what is happening in the last few years. any where I can see the results? some spreadsheet or something. Thanks

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara101 View Post
    so did they test their skeletons? if so, how many of these ancient people's dna has been tested? sorry I am not up to date on what is happening in the last few years. any where I can see the results? some spreadsheet or something. Thanks
    Harrappa calculator is outdated and uses moderns not very helpful anymore.

    Basal-rich K7 spreadsheet has ancients and moderns.

    Currently relevant ancient populations for South Asians are Iran_Neolithic (mix of ANE + Basal), Iran_Hotu (mix of ANE + Basal) and Yamnaya/Afanasievo ( mix of EHG + CHG). EHG is mix of (ANE + WHG) and CHG is mix of (ANE + Basal).

    South Asian admixture is mostly ANE+ Basal + ASI (unknown ghost-population related to Asians/Oceanians). ASI in K7 breaks down into East Eurasian, Southeast Asian and Oceanian in South Asians. We don't have ancient DNA from South Asia yet but things will be more clear once we do.

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  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    Harrappa calculator is outdated and uses moderns not very helpful anymore.

    Basal-rich K7 spreadsheet has ancients and moderns.

    Currently relevant ancient populations for South Asians are Iran_Neolithic (mix of ANE + Basal), Iran_Hotu (mix of ANE + Basal) and Yamnaya/Afanasievo ( mix of EHG + CHG). EHG is mix of (ANE + WHG) and CHG is mix of (ANE + Basal).

    South Asian admixture is mostly ANE+ Basal + ASI (unknown ghost-population related to Asians/Oceanians). ASI in K7 breaks down into East Eurasian, Southeast Asian and Oceanian in South Asians. We don't have ancient DNA from South Asia yet but things will be more clear once we do.
    Thanks for the spreadsheet. Interesting. How can i see haryana jatts and their numbers? I only see gujraties as the only indians on spreadsheet. Are haryana jatts similar to pathans?

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    Harrappa calculator is outdated and uses moderns not very helpful anymore.

    Basal-rich K7 spreadsheet has ancients and moderns.

    Currently relevant ancient populations for South Asians are Iran_Neolithic (mix of ANE + Basal), Iran_Hotu (mix of ANE + Basal) and Yamnaya/Afanasievo ( mix of EHG + CHG). EHG is mix of (ANE + WHG) and CHG is mix of (ANE + Basal).

    South Asian admixture is mostly ANE+ Basal + ASI (unknown ghost-population related to Asians/Oceanians). ASI in K7 breaks down into East Eurasian, Southeast Asian and Oceanian in South Asians. We don't have ancient DNA from South Asia yet but things will be more clear once we do.
    Also. Although this is a good spreadsheet, i like the one with modern humans better, in terms of south asia. The reason for this is because majority of south asian admixture occured between 2000 and 4000 years ago, when many modern groups existed. This is why i want to findout who south asians mixed with within the last 4000 years. South asia has seen so many invasions over the last few thousand years

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara101 View Post
    Thanks for the spreadsheet. Interesting. How can i see haryana jatts and their numbers? I only see gujraties as the only indians on spreadsheet.
    There are various South Asian samples there from Chamars, Brahmins, Gujarati, Velamas, Pashtun, Bengali, Baloch, Kalash to tribes like Chenchu, Gond, Panya to give an idea of admixture in entire South Asia region, who are various levels of mostly ANE+Basal+ASI admixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lara101 View Post
    The reason for this is because majority of south asian admixture occured between 2000 and 4000 years ago, when many modern groups existed. This is why i want to findout who south asians mixed with within the last 4000 years. South asia has seen so many invasions over the last few thousand years
    No, Modern populations had not fully formed yet during this period (4000 yrs ago), similar changes were taking place in Europe and West Asia around same time. Yamnaya-related group were settling in Europe and Iran_Neolithic group were being replaced by Iran_ Chalcolithic group in Iranian plateau.

    Scythians (2000 yrs ago) who invaded South Asia were similar to Yamnaya-related groups or similar to Eastern Scythian groups who were mixture of Yamnaya-related group + East Eurasian.

    All these ancient groups are now extinct and only exist as admixture in modern populations across Eurasia, that's why moderns are not best way to determine where source admixture comes from. Ancient DNA is helpful in determining source of these admixture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lara101 View Post
    Are haryana jatts similar to pathans?
    You have better luck asking that here, there are some Jatt users on this forum.

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdisplay.php?164-Hindi
    Last edited by Observer; 09-17-2017 at 03:11 PM.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I don't recall UP nepali brahmins getting 15% euro on harrapa. UP brahmins are more ASI shifted and Nepali Brahmins usually slightly East Asian shifted. The max I've seen in a Nepali brahmin is around 13%.

    No, I'm not a jatt. I'm Tarkhan. Kalash people are really inbred, whatever their source ancestry was, they kept it within community with inbreeding. Living in remote area helped them preserve their ancestry from invasions while NW plains of South Asia was open ground for invaders.

    You can look like mongolian and have high NE euro (Siberian and Native americans). It is an ancient admixture whose source population may not look like present day "Caucasians". That's why terms like Caucasian, Mongoloid etc etc kind of become useless in genetics world.

    I scored around 14% NE Euro in Harappa. I have two other relatives on Gedmatch that scored above 14% NE Euro. I will not be surprised if I find Nepali brahmin with more than 15% NE Euro.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lara101 View Post
    Are you jatt? Yes the 14 15% is found in UP and Nepali brahmins. But is the same source as jatts. Also what is surprising is kalash have lower of this then these north indic groups
    Kalash + Hunza people are pre IA IMO, mostly Hap L and a strong Iran_N shift - though they have high ANE

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Observer
    Scythians (2000 yrs ago) who invaded South Asia were similar to Yamnaya-related groups or similar to Eastern Scythian groups who were mixture of Yamnaya-related group + East Eurasian.
    We don't know that for certain without aDNA from the region.

    The argument in favour of a pred. EMBA-like Scythian wave into SC and S Asia would be supported by the Sarmatians possessing that profile. However, the Iron Age Scythian looks largely LNBA-derived (EMBA + EEF). That is despite the fact that both lived within a few hundred years of another and resided near the Volga-Don region.

    This distinction (LNBA vs. EMBA in a contemporaneous period) happens to exist between modern Iranians and Indians. An emerging mainstream (at least in these communities) explanation for the distinction is that the Iranian speakers were LNBA and the Indo-Aryans were EMBA. That accounts for the apparent difference in affinity between Iranians and Indians.

    Why the Sarmatians were mostly EMBA is a good question. My suspicion is that predominantly EMBA populations (Yamnaya offshoots which did not receive the EEF transmitted through Corded Ware or Sintashta) did exist in the P-C steppes well into the Classical period. There's circumstantial evidence of this through modern Volga-Ural populations IIRC (they are effectively the combination of Yamnaya and Eastern Eurasian you described).

    We should suspect that the late PIE rump (Balto-Slavic-Indo-Iranian-Greek-?Armenian-?Phrygian) was still mostly EMBA genetically, given our Latvian Corded Ware sample, showing it was basically a Yamnaya transplant in the Baltic.

    [Edit]: I'm actually surprised this thread has gone into its' third page (even with the comparably larger steppe-related input, Haryana Jatts and every other ethnic group in the region clearly aren't Europeans in any meaningful sense). There are multiple other threads to discuss the specifics of reconstructed Jatt history. I'll be closing this thread shortly.

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