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Thread: Looking to use less mixed European genetic groups to model people using k36

  1. #1
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    Looking to use less mixed European genetic groups to model people using k36

    Currently there's some very interesting discussion going on over in the Ancestry DNA section of the forum, and one thing I brought up was my lamentation over the fact that Ancestry DNA uses mixed populations which *in my opinion ruin the test results*

    *Please don't discuss this in this thread, let's talk about that in the Ancestry section

    Then I remembered that we have a wonderful k36 calculator thanks to LukaszM and co. and that using nMonte I can select which populations it uses to model an individual as.
    Since my knowledge is limited, and I've mostly confined it to the British Isles, I'd like help from others here on which k36 populations to select.
    My goal is to remove the more admixed populations such as the English, French, Germans, ect, and select European populations with less mixture to model regions, so, for example, I'd go with the Irish to represent the British Isles, and Sardinian for western Mediterranean.

    The first thing I'd like would be help selecting which populations to use:

    Should I include Iberian populations? If so, which ones are a good choice?
    What would a good choice be for Eastern Europe? something Baltic?
    Is there a central European population that would be a good choice or are they all fairly mixed?
    What would the best choice for Scandinavia be? Norway?

    The second thing I'd like is for people to post their Eurogenes K36 results, while I'm only planning on using European populations, I'd be very interested to see what various non-Europeans get with this model, so no matter who you are I'd love it if you'd share your K36 results.

    Thanks very much for your input & help with this
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, German 18.75%, Scottish 17.96%, Irish (mostly lowland Scottish origin) 12.5%, French 8.2%, Eastern European 6.25%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, French, and Native American, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  3. #2
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    Here are my 23andMe K36 , model away. Using the populations you are suggesting I would expect to get high Irish.

    Amerindian 0.10%
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 2.22%
    Central_African 0.18%
    Central_Euro 4.57%
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan -
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 5.59%
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 3.32%
    Fennoscandian 11.39%
    French 7.32%
    Iberian 13.04%
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 3.32%
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 20.60%
    North_Caucasian 3.77%
    North_Sea 23.26%
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic 0.11%
    Pygmy 0.06%
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 0.59%
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 0.54%
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    Here are my 23andMe K36 , model away. Using the populations you are suggesting I would expect to get high Irish.

    Amerindian 0.10%
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 2.22%
    Central_African 0.18%
    Central_Euro 4.57%
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan -
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 5.59%
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 3.32%
    Fennoscandian 11.39%
    French 7.32%
    Iberian 13.04%
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 3.32%
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 20.60%
    North_Caucasian 3.77%
    North_Sea 23.26%
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic 0.11%
    Pygmy 0.06%
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 0.59%
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 0.54%
    Thank you! Yes I suspect yours will look fairly homogeneous
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, German 18.75%, Scottish 17.96%, Irish (mostly lowland Scottish origin) 12.5%, French 8.2%, Eastern European 6.25%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, French, and Native American, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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    When I was doing some experimental modeling, I was able to produce something with nMonte less than a 1.00 distance and Global 10 PCA with just Lithuanian, Sardinian, and Georgian and adding a few "far" out groups, like a NE Siberian, East Asian, Papuan, South Asian, West African, East African, etc. of key types like that. I am not sure if the same kind of test would work as well with K36, but it may be a start. Here is the link:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post209015
    Last edited by randwulf; 09-07-2017 at 09:41 PM.

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    Will be interested to see results.
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  9. #6
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    European with minor admixture here. If you could use my results I am happy to share.

  10. #7
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    Im a Peloponnesian Greek, using FTDNA

    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian 5.71
    Basque 0.81
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro 3.51
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 7.23
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 5.71
    East_Med 13.80
    Eastern_Euro 3.79
    Fennoscandian 0.72
    French 5.48
    Iberian 8.71
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian 20.43
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern 9.23
    North_African 0.13
    North_Atlantic -
    North_Caucasian 6.86
    North_Sea 4.97
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 0.22
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med 2.67

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Currently there's some very interesting discussion going on over in the Ancestry DNA section of the forum, and one thing I brought up was my lamentation over the fact that Ancestry DNA uses mixed populations which *in my opinion ruin the test results*

    *Please don't discuss this in this thread, let's talk about that in the Ancestry section

    Then I remembered that we have a wonderful k36 calculator thanks to LukaszM and co. and that using nMonte I can select which populations it uses to model an individual as.
    Since my knowledge is limited, and I've mostly confined it to the British Isles, I'd like help from others here on which k36 populations to select.
    My goal is to remove the more admixed populations such as the English, French, Germans, ect, and select European populations with less mixture to model regions, so, for example, I'd go with the Irish to represent the British Isles, and Sardinian for western Mediterranean.

    The first thing I'd like would be help selecting which populations to use:

    Should I include Iberian populations? If so, which ones are a good choice?
    What would a good choice be for Eastern Europe? something Baltic?
    Is there a central European population that would be a good choice or are they all fairly mixed?
    What would the best choice for Scandinavia be? Norway?

    The second thing I'd like is for people to post their Eurogenes K36 results, while I'm only planning on using European populations, I'd be very interested to see what various non-Europeans get with this model, so no matter who you are I'd love it if you'd share your K36 results.

    Thanks very much for your input & help with this
    Thanks God, a rational perspective more then test companies

    I agree you about that using Sardinians is better then using Greeks or Italian. All my request is please try to focus small population as you want to do it like idea of using Sardinians.

    For example, don't take all general Georgian statistic, if you can find a region in Georgia which is more unmixed like South Ossetia, prefer it. In other way, you will be away from your beginning idea or you can't found in enough pure nation in all Eurasia. You will use very limited population which are just at the corner of the Eurasia like Ireland and that will make your work less attractive.

    For Asia Minor,
    Focus on South Central Anatolia result from Kayseri-Karaman. Region people (Turk and Karaman Greeks) are very unmixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eetion View Post
    Thanks God, a rational perspective more then test companies

    I agree you about that using Sardinians is better then using Greeks or Italian. All my request is please try to focus small population as you want to do it like idea of using Sardinians.

    For example, don't take all general Georgian statistic, if you can find a region in Georgia which is more unmixed like South Ossetia, prefer it. In other way, you will be away from your beginning idea or you can't found in enough pure nation in all Eurasia. You will use very limited population which are just at the corner of the Eurasia like Ireland and that will make your work less attractive.

    For Asia Minor,
    Focus on South Central Anatolia result from Kayseri-Karaman. Region people (Turk and Karaman Greeks) are very unmixed.
    Thanks for your advice, I'm just going to be working with the populations that LucaszM and Tomenable have collected for their K36 Oracle project. Since I'm no expert but am somewhat familiar with Europe I want to try to keep it to just European populations for the start of this experiment. I'm unsure about whether or not to have only Sardinians to represent south Europe / Mediterranean or to include some Greek populations and Iberians.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, German 18.75%, Scottish 17.96%, Irish (mostly lowland Scottish origin) 12.5%, French 8.2%, Eastern European 6.25%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, French, and Native American, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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