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Thread: Wales and FTDNA's Y-DNA Database

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I am starting this thread here because it has to do with y-dna and Wales, and Wales is predominantly L21+. I was looking at my y-dna
    That's not a lot of Welshmen. I wonder what we can do about it.
    Bear in mind;

    1 - The British Economy is still well and truly shafted. Although recent figures have shown some improvement there is a fair amount of statistical frigging going on, i.e. Less people are being allowed to claim unemployment benefits, people are working part time instead of full, graduates/school leavers are taking unpaid jobs, and so on, and although average wages are growing slightly they lag behind inflation so the average Brit is still getting poorer each year.

    2 - Are there really many welsh people left? I used to meet quite a lot a few decades ago but they seem to be getter very thin on the ground these days. The highest concentration of Welsh people is around the Llanberis Valley area which is where Welsh is still spoken commonly. The South is very
    mixed English/Welsh blood and a lot of English people up the border seem to retire to Wales, perhaps because it has lower property prices? Maybe the Welsh are dying out?

    3 - Why would a welshman want to pay 200 for you to find out where you came from? They want to find out where they came from and it ain't America! For them to be really interested in DNA testing they would need to be able to find out who they matched back across the water in Continental Europe. But not many Continental Europeans seem to have tested compared to the Welsh. Something sounds familiar about this ;-) And what would it take to get more Continental Europeans to test? Eastern Europeans! And what would it take to get more Eastern Europeans to test? Turkish? Iranians? And so on and so on... Existing DNA databases contain few results that are of interest to the Welsh.


    2 things you COULD do to get more Welsh to test are;

    a] Decrease test costs markedly or subsidize Welsh testing (perhaps contact Welsh Family History societys to find volunteers - http://www.fhswales.org.uk/members.htm if you want to go down this route)

    b] Make some DNA discoveries that are of great historic relevance to the Welsh (if you tell a Welshman that most Welsh are L21 (as you asserted), and so are all related, it is more likely to result in you getting your lights punched out than in them getting their DNA tested! ;-) ).

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    Whoops, sorry, of course the 3rd thing you could do to make the Welsh more interesting in testing is to

    c] Get more Dutch, Belgians, French, Spanish & Germans to test!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterRabbit View Post
    Bear in mind;

    1 - The British Economy is still well and truly shafted. Although recent figures have shown some improvement there is a fair amount of statistical frigging going on, i.e. Less people are being allowed to claim unemployment benefits, people are working part time instead of full, graduates/school leavers are taking unpaid jobs, and so on, and although average wages are growing slightly they lag behind inflation so the average Brit is still getting poorer each year.

    2 - Are there really many welsh people left? I used to meet quite a lot a few decades ago but they seem to be getter very thin on the ground these days. The highest concentration of Welsh people is around the Llanberis Valley area which is where Welsh is still spoken commonly. The South is very
    mixed English/Welsh blood and a lot of English people up the border seem to retire to Wales, perhaps because it has lower property prices? Maybe the Welsh are dying out?

    3 - Why would a welshman want to pay 200 for you to find out where you came from? They want to find out where they came from and it ain't America! For them to be really interested in DNA testing they would need to be able to find out who they matched back across the water in Continental Europe. But not many Continental Europeans seem to have tested compared to the Welsh. Something sounds familiar about this ;-) And what would it take to get more Continental Europeans to test? Eastern Europeans! And what would it take to get more Eastern Europeans to test? Turkish? Iranians? And so on and so on... Existing DNA databases contain few results that are of interest to the Welsh.


    2 things you COULD do to get more Welsh to test are;

    a] Decrease test costs markedly or subsidize Welsh testing (perhaps contact Welsh Family History societys to find volunteers - http://www.fhswales.org.uk/members.htm if you want to go down this route)

    b] Make some DNA discoveries that are of great historic relevance to the Welsh (if you tell a Welshman that most Welsh are L21 (as you asserted), and so are all related, it is more likely to result in you getting your lights punched out than in them getting their DNA tested! ;-) ).
    1. The U.S. economy isn't good, either.

    2. I think there are still plenty of Welsh people left. Besides, I was talking about y-dna, which requires only patrilineal Welsh descent, in most cases signified by possession of a Welsh surname.

    3. I would not try to convince a Welshman to spend his money on y-dna testing by arguing that it would help me. Honestly, I'm not sure how I would try to convince a native Welshman to test. Perhaps the best argument for testing might be its ability to make connections to the history of the peopling of Wales and of Britain in general. As far as cost goes, y-dna testing is available for a lot less than 200. Currently, an entry-level, 12-marker y-dna test can be had from FTDNA for about 32. Continental testing, while lagging behind Isles testing, is not non-existent. The database of continental y-dna results is actually pretty large.

    DNA discoveries of great historical significance to the Welsh have already been made; L21 is one of them. I doubt that finding a y-dna connection to the ancient Britons, and to the Celts in general, would upset a Welshman, quite the contrary.

    National origin in FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database is based on where one's most distant y-dna ancestor came from, not on where the test subject happens to reside now. In other words, many if not most of those listed as Welsh are no doubt Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, etc. The same is true for all of the other nationalities in the Ancestral Origins database. That is why it is called Ancestral Origins, after all. For example, I have a 105/111 match who is a Canadian citizen living in British Columbia but whose y-dna ancestor came from Wales. I have a 65/67 match who also lives in Canada (I forget where), has a Welsh surname, but who was born in Worcester, England.

    It would be nice to get more y-dna test results from Welshmen who actually live in Wales, but results from the Welsh diaspora are good, too, and undoubtedly easier to get, since there are probably more Welshmen outside of Wales than in it.
    Last edited by rms2; 08-11-2013 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterRabbit View Post
    Bear in mind;

    1 - The British Economy is still well and truly shafted. Although recent figures have shown some improvement there is a fair amount of statistical frigging going on, i.e. Less people are being allowed to claim unemployment benefits, people are working part time instead of full, graduates/school leavers are taking unpaid jobs, and so on, and although average wages are growing slightly they lag behind inflation so the average Brit is still getting poorer each year.

    2 - Are there really many welsh people left? I used to meet quite a lot a few decades ago but they seem to be getter very thin on the ground these days. The highest concentration of Welsh people is around the Llanberis Valley area which is where Welsh is still spoken commonly. The South is very
    mixed English/Welsh blood and a lot of English people up the border seem to retire to Wales, perhaps because it has lower property prices? Maybe the Welsh are dying out?
    Congrats on writing the most depressing post I've ever read on Anthrogenica since its launch.

  5. #15
    Senior Member GoldenHind's Avatar
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    As one who has spent quite a lot of time in the Welsh Marches, near the still very rural mid Wales, I can assure you there is no shortage of Welsh people remaining. Also a large portion of the English in the area have surnames of Welsh origin, such as Price or Pritchard.

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     rms2 (08-12-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenHind View Post
    As one who has spent quite a lot of time in the Welsh Marches, near the still very rural mid Wales, I can assure you there is no shortage of Welsh people remaining. Also a large portion of the English in the area have surnames of Welsh origin, such as Price or Pritchard.
    This is an interesting thread. Some of you may be aware that I make forays into north Wales to collect DNA samples for an ongoing historical genetics project. I can assure you there are many Welsh men residing in the area, and they are as keen as ever to demonstrate their Welsh heritage.

    In terms of getting more samples, some of what was said before is likely to work. Certainly connecting with local family history societies may be an idea. I can put you in touch with an enthusiastic member of Gwynedd FHS (which covers the top left hand corner of Wales + Anglesey).

    Another idea might be to look for your local men of Welsh ancestry. If you live in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_American (as well as most metropolitan districts I suspect) simply get out the phone directory and look for Jones, Williams, Davies, Evans, Thomas, Roberts, Hughes, Lewis, Morris, Morgan etc.... If there's one in your neighbourhood drop by and tell him the good news about his almost certain Welsh paternal ancestry!! If this piques his interest you can tell him how wonderful genetic genealogy is, and you may be half way to your first sale.

    Regarding
    b] Make some DNA discoveries that are of great historic relevance to the Welsh (if you tell a Welshman that most Welsh are L21 (as you asserted), and so are all related, it is more likely to result in you getting your lights punched out than in them getting their DNA tested! ;-) ).
    I think that you would need to tell them that L21 men share common ancestry quite a long time ago. If you told them L21 was more common in Wales than in England, suggesting the populations are divergent, then that would be well received.

    Andy

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     rms2 (08-12-2013)

  9. #17
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    Even in the industrial SE you'll find plenty of people with Welsh pedigrees. I've traced most of my lines back 7 generations and the larger majority of my mother's are Welsh, a surprising number of which were local to my vicinity.

    Just so happens that the paternal line isn't, something my maternal grandfather didn't learn of until relatively late in life, one of those family secrets : )

  10. #18
    Senior Member rms2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greystones22 View Post
    . . .
    Another idea might be to look for your local men of Welsh ancestry. If you live in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_American (as well as most metropolitan districts I suspect) simply get out the phone directory and look for Jones, Williams, Davies, Evans, Thomas, Roberts, Hughes, Lewis, Morris, Morgan etc.... If there's one in your neighbourhood drop by and tell him the good news about his almost certain Welsh paternal ancestry!! If this piques his interest you can tell him how wonderful genetic genealogy is, and you may be half way to your first sale . . .
    Thanks for the suggestions!

    I just did a little searching for my area and found this:

    The Welsh Society of Fredericksburg, Virginia

    I'll probably join, since the dues are just $15 a year.
    Last edited by rms2; 08-12-2013 at 11:29 AM.

  11. #19
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    Its worth joining for the domain name alone!!

    "Welshfred.com"

    Get down to their festival and talk to people about DNA



    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions!

    I just did a little searching for my area and found this:

    The Welsh Society of Fredericksburg, Virginia

    I'll probably join, since the dues are just $15 a year.

  12. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by greystones22 View Post
    This is an interesting thread. Some of you may be aware that I make forays into north Wales to collect DNA samples for an ongoing historical genetics project. I can assure you there are many Welsh men residing in the area, and they are as keen as ever to demonstrate their Welsh heritage.

    In terms of getting more samples, some of what was said before is likely to work. Certainly connecting with local family history societies may be an idea. I can put you in touch with an enthusiastic member of Gwynedd FHS (which covers the top left hand corner of Wales + Anglesey).

    Another idea might be to look for your local men of Welsh ancestry. If you live in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_American (as well as most metropolitan districts I suspect) simply get out the phone directory and look for Jones, Williams, Davies, Evans, Thomas, Roberts, Hughes, Lewis, Morris, Morgan etc.... If there's one in your neighbourhood drop by and tell him the good news about his almost certain Welsh paternal ancestry!! If this piques his interest you can tell him how wonderful genetic genealogy is, and you may be half way to your first sale.

    Regarding
    b] Make some DNA discoveries that are of great historic relevance to the Welsh (if you tell a Welshman that most Welsh are L21 (as you asserted), and so are all related, it is more likely to result in you getting your lights punched out than in them getting their DNA tested! ;-) ).
    I think that you would need to tell them that L21 men share common ancestry quite a long time ago. If you told them L21 was more common in Wales than in England, suggesting the populations are divergent, then that would be well received.

    Andy
    I am guessing that you are involved with the University of Sheffield study that was researching the DNA of men in NE Wales, looking for a possible Bronze Age mining link?

    I read about this a while ago and I assume it was prompted by the high levels of Haplogroup E that were found in an earlier study in Abergele? Is this correct and have any further results been published yet? North Wales genetic genealogy is a particular interest of mine and I had wondered if the Abergele result was a strange anomaly for the region.

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