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Thread: Repton Viking Remains

  1. #31
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    An interesting read. I was always under the impression that this Ivar (because it never added the title of boneless) was in fact another Ivar. I
    n the same way there are some different historical "Ragnar's" cited with some saying "Lothbrok" some not and some suggesting he died at the hands of Aella and some suggesting he died in battle. It would be interesting if what you wrote is true and the Gofraid Ivar was the same person as Ivar the boneless.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Chandler View Post
    It would be interesting if what you wrote is true and the Gofraid Ivar was the same person as Ivar the boneless.
    No I don't think that the real, historical ═varr was exactly the same person as the fictional Ivar the boneless in the Ragnar sagas. It appears that the historical ═varr and some of his historical brothers were woven into Viking sagas as men of Danish royal descent who made conquests in England, and that eventually someone uncertain of their real genealogy melded them into a Ragnar story, creating the Tale of Ragnar's Sons. The historian Saxo tried to make sense of the stories of Ragnar in his 12th-century Gesta Danorum, drawing together a number of tales that probably related to different historical people.

    It is all a mess really, so it is best to get back to the contemporary sources for the events in England and Ireland, such as the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle and Irish annals.
    Last edited by Jean M; 10-30-2017 at 09:37 AM.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Chandler View Post
    I've often wondered if that story about fighting the giant snake was around even at the time of Ragnar and that's why King Aella chose the pit of vipers saying "So you you fight snakes...lets see how you do with these."
    There is a local rhym/legend called the Lambton Worm, still sung today in Nursery schools etc in Co Durham, Northern England, part of ancient Northumbria. It is representative of a giant worm,its believed to be from the age of the viking settlements, or invasions of 9th & 10th century Northumbria. It is often refered to a giant Snake or Dragon. I think it may be refering to the viking 'Orm' English 'Worm'. 'Pit of snakes could refer to the type of men that killed him ( Ragnar Lothbroke ) In other words it could of meant a low opinion of his killers or a betrayal in or by a Pit of Snakes,'Group of people' or refering to the city of ' York' or another town 'as a pit of snakes in Anglo Saxon England. The age was full of similar meanings they often were not 'literally descriptive'. The North East still retains a viking/Anglian dialect and possibly memories of events of that time. Although it may of changed over the years, to what it is now a local legend it may of been based on the story, and other thinking is that the snakes/dragon/worm were representing and describing Vikings,and the Worm dragon Snake represented a viking ship,with its dragon like prow, such legends and historic memories of events still survive today, often, as modern or local nursery songs, similar one is London Bridge is falling Down, believed to be based on the Viking attack on the London bridge, viking Axes weapons including grappling hooks were found in the river at the site of London Bridge.
    Last edited by Paul333; 11-15-2017 at 01:22 AM.

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  6. #34
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    It's interesting that "Jormungand" was supposed to have also played a part in the early Germanic tribes too. What was the big difference in their early religious beliefs as they also shared Odin/Woden too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Chandler View Post
    It's interesting that "Jormungand" was supposed to have also played a part in the early Germanic tribes too. What was the big difference in their early religious beliefs as they also shared Odin/Woden too?
    " Orm " could also of been the Personal name of the actual Viking leader, of a raid, and may form the root, or basis of the original rhyme,( the Lambton Worm ). There is a famous Inscription on Kirkdale Church, Rydale Yorkshire ( St Gregory's ) Sun Dial, ( written by possibly Danes/Vikings who settled that part of Northumbria known as the Danelaw from the great Army of 865 AD. This 'Orm' was described as the son of 'Gamal', in King Edwards Day,( the Confessor died 1066) when Tostig was Earl, Tostig was forced to flee, sometime around 1065, and lost his earldom. Tostig Godwinson was later killed fighting alongside the Norwegen King Harald 'Hadrader' Sigurdson, at Stamford Bridge, in 1066AD by his Brothers Army ( Harold Godwinson died 1066 Hastings ).

    In the 'Lambton Worm', he was supposedly to have wrapped himself around 'Penshaw Hill,and also 'Worm Hill', on the banks of the river wear to the west of Sunderland, and it is very similar to the Norse/Viking legend with 'Jormungandr' wrapping himself around the earth biting his tail, letting go would bring about 'Ragnarok', the end of the world. The legends of the Lambtom Worm are so full of legends, which are very similar to viking legends, that many believe it to have a Viking origin.
    Last edited by Paul333; Yesterday at 08:56 PM.

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    The Scandinavian and Germanic God 'Odin,Woden, Wotan' is one and the same, he was a legendary war chief, who came from Asia Minor to Jutland, and left his son 'SKjold/Scyld' to rule, as Ancestor of the Royal Scyldings ( Kings of Denmark ). He is the ancestor of the Scandinavian/Germanic Royal families who all trace back to him ( Wotan/Woden/Odin ) He was first mentioned in written history with the Roman descriptions of the Germanic Tribes, and mentioned as the founder of their Royal lines in there genealogy. The legends of 'Odin' mainly come from the Norse Scandinavian histories.
    Last edited by Paul333; Today at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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    Worm's Head Gower, South West Wales. There are a lot of Viking names around the Welsh Coast.

    worms head.Jpeg

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Worm's Head Gower, South West Wales. There are a lot of Viking names around the Welsh Coast.

    worms head.Jpeg
    Agree, I think there is also a lot of Scandinavian related DNA, found in areas of Coastal Wales. Regarding the references 'Worm' It seems there are many place name references, refering to Worm legends.

    There is also yet another Worm legend in County Durham, the 'Sockburn Worm'. This has a religeous connection, which may also possibly relate to the viking attacks, of Northumbria. Sockburn is also on a peninsular bend of the river Tees, near to Darlington. Every new Bishop of Durham, traditionally has to cross the river here, and receive, 'the Conyers Sword', (Falchion ) which was used to slay the Worm, Its possibly related to Christianity defeating Viking paganism. There was an Anglo Saxon Monastery at Sockburn, prior to the viking attacks, and the sacking of which,and settlement of the surrounding areas, by the Vikings may be another reason for yet another legend of the Worm,( Serpent ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul333 View Post
    Agree, I think there is also a lot of Scandinavian related DNA, found in areas of Coastal Wales. Regarding the references 'Worm' It seems there are many place name references, refering to Worm legends.

    There is also yet another Worm legend in County Durham, the 'Sockburn Worm'. This has a religeous connection, which may also possibly relate to the viking attacks, of Northumbria. Sockburn is also on a peninsular bend of the river Tees, near to Darlington. Every new Bishop of Durham, traditionally has to cross the river here, and receive, 'the Conyers Sword', (Falchion ) which was used to slay the Worm, Its possibly related to Christianity defeating Viking paganism. There was an Anglo Saxon Monastery at Sockburn, prior to the viking attacks, and the sacking of which,and settlement of the surrounding areas, by the Vikings may be another reason for yet another legend of the Worm,( Serpent ).
    And just to add, The Great Orme, in North Wales.
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    For those in the UK, Digging For Britain is about to start on BBC Four. It features Repton camp.

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