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Thread: Modeling Slavs as mixtures of >100 ancients

  1. #11
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    R1a > M198 > YP 1337

    Poland
    Because many of sample he used is based on my uploads, or uploads which are published on foras, I will shortly publish datsheet
    Last edited by lukaszM; 08-12-2017 at 10:41 AM.

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  3. #12
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    List of ancients used (some were used twice due to slightly different results from different uploads):

    IA_Sarmatian_I0575
    IA_Sarmatian_I0575b
    IA_Sarmatian_I0574
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26
    IA_LevantEgypt_3DRIF26b
    IA_GaelicCelt_6DRIF18
    IA_BritishCelt_6DRIF23
    IA_GaulishCelt_6DRIF22
    IA_PictishBrit_6DRIF21
    IA_CelticBriton_HI1
    IA_CelticBriton_HI4
    IA_Celto-German_6DRIF3
    IA_Celto-German_3DRIF16
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow55
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow25
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow22
    IA_EastGermanic_Kow45
    IA_EastGermanic_Mas5
    IA_Egypt_JK2911
    EMA_AngloSaxon_HS2
    EMA_AngloSaxon_HS1
    EMA_Northumbrian_NO3423
    HG_Ethiopia_Mota
    BA_Iberia_ATP9
    BA_Portugal_I0207
    BA_Portugal_TorreVelha
    BA_Portugal_ERR1524174
    BA_Portugal_TorreVelhaB
    BA_Portugal_MonteGato
    BA_CreteArmenoi_I9123
    LN_Greece_Klei10
    BA_Mycenaean_I9006
    BA_Mycenaean_I9010
    BA_Mycenaean_I9033
    BA_Mycenaean_I9041
    BA_Minoan_I0073
    BA_Minoan_I0070
    BA_Anatolia_I2499
    LBA_Sudovia_RISE598
    LBA_Denmark_RISE276
    LBA_EastGermany_I0099
    MBA_Germany_RISE471
    LBA_Hungary_BR2
    BA_Ireland_Rathlin1
    BA_Hungary_BR1
    BA_Cuiavia_PLN17
    BA_Silesia_RISE150
    BA_Silesia_RISE154
    BA_Czechia_RISE577
    BA_Czechia_RISE586
    BA_EastGermany_I0047
    BA_EastGermany_I0047b
    BA_EastGermany_I0114
    BA_EastGermany_I0115
    BA_EastGermany_I0116
    BA_EastGermany_I0117
    BA_EastGermany_I0164
    BA_EastGermany_I0164b
    BA_EastGermany_I0803
    BA_EastGermany_I0803b
    CA_Estonia_MA826
    CA_Estonia_MA971
    CA_Estonia_RISE
    CA_Estonia_MA969
    CA_Estonia_MA973
    LBA_Armenia_RISE397
    LBA_Armenia_RISE412
    BA_Armenia_I1633
    BA_Armenia_I1635
    BA_Armenia_I1656
    BA_Armenia_I1658
    BA_Levant_I1706
    BA_Levant_I1705
    BA_Levant_I1730
    CA_Iran_I1665a
    CA_Iran_I1665b
    CA_Iran_I1674
    LNE_Iran_I1671
    CA_Iran_I1661a
    CA_Iran_I1661b
    CA_Iran_I1662
    CA_MarmaraSea_I1584
    IA_Scythian_I0247
    IA_Hungary_IR1
    IA_Sweden_RISE174
    IA_Iran_F38
    LMA_Iran_I1955
    MEG_Iberia_I0408
    MEG_Iberia_I0406
    CA_Iberia_ATP16
    CA_Iberia_ATP2
    CA_Iberia_I1300
    CA_Iberia_I1281
    CA_Iberia_I1303
    CA_Iberia_I1314
    CA_Iberia_I1280
    CA_Iberia_I1277
    CA_Iberia_I1274
    CA_Italy_RISE487
    CA_Italy_RISE489
    CA_Italy_RISE486
    BA_Steppe_RISE505
    BA_Steppe_RISE395
    BA_Steppe_I0423
    BA_Steppe_RISE500
    BA_Steppe_I0232
    DnieperDonets_N1

    And several fictional samples (simply 100% of each component):

    Anc_Amerindian
    Anc_Basque
    Anc_Central_African
    Anc_East_African
    Anc_East_Asian
    Anc_East_Central_Asian
    Anc_Indochinese
    Anc_Malayan
    Anc_North_African
    Anc_Northeast_African
    Anc_Oceanian
    Anc_Pygmy
    Anc_Siberian
    Anc_South_Asian
    Anc_South_Chinese
    Anc_West_African

    I tried to avoid mixing too many different periods and I tried to avoid using low coverage samples.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    I will shortly publish datsheet
    But I mostly wasn't using Mesolithic and Neolithic samples, or samples from Europe with low coverage and 10% of "Amerindian" or similar admixture. I used only the samples listed above for those runs.

    You have to do some selection of samples, othewise the results won't make sense.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-12-2017 at 12:26 PM.

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  5. #13
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    Soon I will add more (for example two more Egyptians - but their absence didn't make difference for Slavic and British populations). Any suggestions as to which important samples should be added?

    Also what do you think about mixing descendants with ancestors (for example adding Mesolithic Iberians, Neolithic Iberians, Copper Age Iberians, and Bronze Age Iberians - I generally tried to avoid that)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukendo View Post
    Both.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Im also very interested in this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Please share both of them.
    Moderns - Slavic, British, Irish, French Normandy and East Germans:

    Slavs & Brits.zip

    Ancients (feel free to suggest which ancient samples can be added):

    k36ancient3.zip
    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-12-2017 at 12:55 PM.

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  7. #14
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    R1a > M198 > YP 1337

    Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    List of ancients used (some were used twice due to slightly different results from different uploads):


    You have to do some selection of samples, othewise the results won't make sense.
    I will add as many as possible (of cours elimianting low-coveraged and too many neolithics because usually there were very simialr to each other). Everybod can delete those who don't like.

    But I mostly wasn't using Mesolithic and Neolithic samples, or samples from Europe with low coverage and 10% of "Amerindian" or similar admixture. I used only the samples listed above for those runs.
    Don't agree. Every ancient oracle on Gedmatch (Puntdnal, Gedrosia, MDLP or Davidski Global K10) has selection of samples from different ages (from UP to Iron Age). Authors are more skilled than you in this subject and if they choose such model I trust them.
    Last edited by lukaszM; 08-12-2017 at 01:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    Every ancient oracle on Gedmatch (Puntdnal, Gedrosia, MDLP or Davidski Basal Rich) has selection of samples from different ages (from UP to Iron Age).
    Mixing all ages together doesn't make sense IMO. It would be like doing an oracle for modern Americas based on both modern and Pre-Columbian samples. And for example you get 15% Inca + 20% Colombia_modern + 30% Maya + 30% Mexico_modern + 5% Nigeria.

    What does such a result tell you?
    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-12-2017 at 01:13 PM.

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  10. #16
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    R1a > M198 > YP 1337

    Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Mixing all ages together doesn't make sense IMO. It would be like doing an oracle for modern Americas based on both modern and Pre-Columbian samples. And for example you get 15% Inca + 20% Colombia_modern + 30% Maya + 30% Mexico_modern + 5% Nigeria.

    What does such a result tell you?



    Why ONLY from UP to Iron Age? Why stop at Iron Age? Why not from UP to 2017 AD?
    Argue with Kurd, Polako or Vadim not me...

    Do you ever check spreadsheets of MDLP K11 foe example?

  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    Argue with Kurd, Polako or Vadim not me...
    They were mixing ages because the number of ancient samples was small.

    Now when the number of ancients is increasing, we can be more selective.

    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    selection of samples from different ages (from UP to Iron Age).
    Why ONLY from UP to Iron Age? Why stop at Iron Age? Why not from UP to 2017 AD?

    Make one huge oracle with all ancient and all modern references mixed together!

    The results will be 50% Poland_Mazovia + 50% Kostenki_14, and so on.

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    R1a > M198 > YP 1337

    Poland
    MDLP K11

    Greek_Neolithic
    Afanasievo_Eneolithic
    AfontovaGora3_Paleolithic
    Alberstedt_LN
    Anatolia_Chalcolithic
    Anatolia_Neolithic
    Ancient_Australian
    Ancient_Denisova
    Ancient_Neandertal
    Andronovo_Eneolithic
    Armenia_LBA
    Armenia_MBA
    Armenia_Chalcolithic
    Armenia_EBA
    Armenia_MLBA
    Baalberge_MN
    Balkan_LBA
    Baltic_LBA
    Nordic_BattleAxe
    Bell_Beaker
    Bell_Beaker_Czech
    Bell_Beaker_Germany
    BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN
    BerryAuBac_Mesolithic
    Bichon_Azillian
    Birnirk_Arctic
    Bockstein_Mesolithic
    Brillenhohle_Magdalenian
    British_AngloSaxon
    British_Celtic
    British_IronAge
    British_Roman
    Burkhardtshohle_Magdalenian
    Chaudardes1_Mesolithic
    Cioclovina1_Paleolithic
    Clovis_Amerindian
    Continenza_Paleolithic
    Corded_Ware_Chalcolithic
    Corded_Ware_Estonia
    Corded_Ware_Germany
    Corded_Ware_Germany
    Corded_Ware_Proto_Unetice_Poland
    Denisovan
    ElMiron_Magdalenian
    Esperstedt_MN
    Europe_EN
    Europe_MN
    Falkenstein_Mesolithic
    GermanStuttgart_LBK
    Germany_BA
    GoyetQ_2_Magdalenian
    GoyetQ116-1_Aurignacian 3.94
    GoyetQ376_19_Gravettian
    GoyetQ53_1_Gravettian
    GoyetQ56_16_Gravettian
    Saqqaq_Arctic
    Halberstadt_LBA
    HohleFels49_Magdalenian
    HohleFels79_Magdalenian
    Hungary_BA
    Hungary_CA
    Hungary_EN
    Hungary_HG
    Hungary_IronAge
    Hungary_MBA
    GermanStuttgart_LBK
    Germany_Bronze_Age
    Iberia_Chalcolithic
    Iberia_Mesolithic
    Iberian_Chalcolitic
    Iboussieres39
    Iran_Chalcolithic
    Iran_LN
    Iran_N
    Iran_Mesolithic
    Irish_BA
    Irish_LN
    Iron_Age
    Karasuk_BA
    Karelia_HG
    Karsdorf_LN
    Kennewick_Amerindian
    Kostenki12_Upper_Paleolithic
    Kostenki14_Upper_Paleolithic
    Kotias_CHG
    KremsWA3_Gravettian
    LaBrana_Mesolithic
    LateDorset_Arctic
    LBK_EN
    LesCloseaux13_Mesolithic
    Levant_BA
    Levant_N
    Luxembourg_Mesolithic
    Maros_BA
    Mezhovskaya_LBA
    MiddleDorset_Arctic
    Mota_EastAfrica
    Motala_HG
    Swedish_Mesolithic
    Muierii2_Upper_Paleolithic
    Natufian
    Neandertal_Altai
    Neandertal_Mezmaiskaya
    Nordic_BA
    Nordic_BA
    Nordic_IA
    Nordic_LBA
    Nordic_LN
    Nordic_LN
    Nordic_MN_B
    Oase1_Upper_Paleolithic
    Ofnet_Mesolithic
    Okunevo_BA
    Ostuni1_Gravettian
    Ostuni2_Gravettian
    Paglicci108_Gravettian
    Paglicci138_Gravettian
    Pavlov1_Gravettian
    Poltavka_MBA
    Poltavka_MBA_outlier
    Potapovka_BA
    Russia_EBA
    Russia_IA
    Russia_LBA
    Ranchot88_Mesolithic
    Remedello_BA
    Rigney1_Magdalenian
    Rochedane_Epipaleolithic
    Salzmuende_MN
    Samara_Eneolithic
    Samara_HG
    Satsurblia_CHG
    Scythian_IA
    Siberian_Ice_Age
    Siberian_Upper_Paleolithic
    Sintashta_MBA
    Spain_EN
    Spain_MN
    Srubnaya_LBA
    Srubnaya_LBA_outlier
    Starcevo_EN
    Scandinavian_MHG
    Scandinavian_MN
    Scandinavian_NH
    Swedish_LN
    Swedish_HG
    Swedish_Motala_Mesolithic
    Tyrolean_Iceman_EN
    Unetice_MBA
    Unetice_EBA
    Ust_Ishim_Upper_Ăœaleolothic
    Vatya_MBA
    Vestonice13_Gravettian
    Vestonice14_Gravettian
    Vestonice15_Gravettian
    Vestonice16_Gravettian
    Vestonice43_Gravettian
    Villabruna_Epigravettian
    Yamnaya_Samara_EBA
    Yamnaya_Kalmykia_LBA
    Botocudo_Amerindian



    So what now "Specialist" ? Buahahhaa
    Last edited by lukaszM; 08-12-2017 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #19
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    Describing ancients with modern population samples isn't the most accurate method as these populations are the ancestors of modern populations and not a mixture of moderns.

  15. #20
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    R1a > M198 > YP 1337

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan View Post
    Describing ancients with modern population samples isn't the most accurate method as these populations are the ancestors of modern populations and not a mixture of moderns.
    Of course. I only want to include references from mesolithic to Iron Age like in every ancient oracle published (this is standard for them). Tomenable said something about mixing with moderns, not me
    Last edited by lukaszM; 08-12-2017 at 01:20 PM.

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