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Thread: Caucasus Results Comparison

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    This might be slightly off topic but I've seen a few afghan AncestryDna and 23andme results online and most of them get 70-80% south asian, and the iranians get around 5-10%. Funny thing is afghanistan is considered Central asia on ancestrydna, yet they get majority south asian. On gedmatch calculators, majority of afghans cluster closer to iranians than even most northwest south asian groups such as sindhis and punjabis. I'm just confused as to why afghans get majority south asian on those tests? shouldn't they have similar components as iranians with slightly higher south asian than iranians?
    This is really just a guess, but I would chalk this up to reference panels. AncestryDNA only includes 26 samples from the entire Asia Central region, which (as you correctly point out) includes Afghanistan. Afghanistan is extremely ethnically diverse, as is that entire region. Who knows where AncestryDNA's 26 samples came from? Who knows which (or how many) ethnic communities in Afghanistan were actually included in that set of samples? It's possible that the Afghan results you're referring to derive from Afghans whose ethnic communities were not included in the Central Asia reference panel.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kush View Post
    This might be slightly off topic but I've seen a few afghan AncestryDna and 23andme results online and most of them get 70-80% south asian, and the iranians get around 5-10%. Funny thing is afghanistan is considered Central asia on ancestrydna, yet they get majority south asian. On gedmatch calculators, majority of afghans cluster closer to iranians than even most northwest south asian groups such as sindhis and punjabis. I'm just confused as to why afghans get majority south asian on those tests? shouldn't they have similar components as iranians with slightly higher south asian than iranians?
    Any test that shows Afghans as 70-80% S Asian, bases the S Asian component on Afghan references in addition to Indian references So in effect the test is saying that the Afghan is 70-80% Afghan, which of course is not very informative to genetic substructure if you happen to be an Indian or Afghan.

    For example, I can make a Kurd 70-80% S Asian if I made Kurds also S Asian references. Wouldn't make sense of course but that is certainly possible. With ADMIXTURE based calculators such as those on Gedmatch the problem is of a different nature. Those calculators underestimate differences between divergent populations, and overestimate similarity between populations in close geographic proximity sharing SOME drift. As an example, I can have W Asians score about 10% -15 % E Asian when I have only a couple of testers in the run, however, as soon as I throw in some E Asian testers, those same W Asians will score only 0-3% E Asian. In very simplistic terms, they are basically expelled from the E Asian comp by the E Asian test subjects.

    That is the reason I put together calculators based on ancients sources. The reality is there is high genetic continuity all the way from NW India to Kurdistan. Differences are based on a very small number of alleles, which comprise a tiny percentage of alleles derived in Eurasians.
    EurasianDNA.com - A study of the population history of West & South Asia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saba123 View Post
    Nice you have one of the highest Caucasus results I've seen for an Iranian. Heres my results btw my known ancestry is 37.5% Bakhtiari 25% Qashqai 25% Fars Iranian 12.5% Unknown Iranian.
    ANCESTRYDNA
    Caucasus 73% Asia South 14% Middle East 10% Africa Southeastern Bantu 2% European Jewish < 1%
    DNALAND
    Central Indoeuropean 38%, Indo-Iranian 28%, Mediterranean Islander 29%, Indus Valley 2%, Kalash 1.7%, Ambiguous 1.7%
    FTDNA
    Asia Minor 71% Central Asian 21% East Middle East 3% West African 2% East Central Africa < 1% North and Central America < 1%West Middle East < 1%
    MyHeritage
    West Asia 89.2% South Asia 8.4% Ashkenazi Jewish 1.5% Middle Eastern 0.9%
    I see that in another thread you mentioned that you've seen many Iranians show "Arab" in their DNA.Land results. That's very surprising to me. DNA.Land's map shows that no samples were taken from Iraq, which is where I always imagined Iranians' "Middle East" oriented results derived from. I figured that would explain the absence of any "Arab" showing in my DNA.Land results, my brother's DNA.Land results, and my parents' DNA.Land results, even though we all shows varying degrees of "Middle East" in our Ancestry and MyHeritage results (anywhere from 2% to 8%).

    Also, I know "Mediterranean Islander" on DNA.Land has thrown many people off. For what it's worth, I fell smack in the middle of my parents' results: my dad showed 1.4%, my mom showed 29%, and I showed 13%.

    Again, my dad's family almost entirely comes from Gilan (Caspian Sea area), while my mom's family is likely a mix of Caucasian, Iranian Azeri, Kurdish, and Persian.

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex n Harmony View Post
    I see that in another thread you mentioned that you've seen many Iranians show "Arab" in their DNA.Land results. That's very surprising to me. DNA.Land's map shows that no samples were taken from Iraq, which is where I always imagined Iranians' "Middle East" oriented results derived from. I figured that would explain the absence of any "Arab" showing in my DNA.Land results, my brother's DNA.Land results, and my parents' DNA.Land results, even though we all shows varying degrees of "Middle East" in our Ancestry and MyHeritage results (anywhere from 2% to 8%).

    Also, I know "Mediterranean Islander" on DNA.Land has thrown many people off. For what it's worth, I fell smack in the middle of my parents' results: my dad showed 1.4%, my mom showed 29%, and I showed 13%.

    Again, my dad's family almost entirely comes from Gilan (Caspian Sea area), while my mom's family is likely a mix of Caucasian, Iranian Azeri, Kurdish, and Persian.
    The Arab ancestry in Iran could come from various sources. Mostly its Iraqi/Bedouin like you said. In my families case, its mostly due to recent Egyptian ancestry. Theres a few Arab tribes in Ahwaz, but also a Lebanese minority in Iran from centuries back mostly located in and around Qom.
    Last edited by ancestryfan1994; 08-13-2017 at 06:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ancestryfan1994 View Post
    The Arab ancestry in Iran could come from various sources. Mostly its Iraqi/Bedouin like you said. In my families case, its mostly due to recent Egyptian ancestry. Theres a few Arab tribes in Ahwaz, but also a Lebanese minority in Iran from centuries back mostly located in and around Qom.
    You're certainly right that there are Arabs in Iran. But in my comment I was referring to Iranians who don't identify as Arab, don't speak Arabic as a first language, and have no known Arab ancestry. Those Iranians still show some "Middle East" or "Arab" in many tests, and I figured that's a result of matching samples taken from present-day Iraq (using the DNA.Land results I shared as a basis for my conclusion). I could be wrong, though.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex n Harmony View Post
    I see that in another thread you mentioned that you've seen many Iranians show "Arab" in their DNA.Land results. That's very surprising to me. DNA.Land's map shows that no samples were taken from Iraq, which is where I always imagined Iranians' "Middle East" oriented results derived from. I figured that would explain the absence of any "Arab" showing in my DNA.Land results, my brother's DNA.Land results, and my parents' DNA.Land results, even though we all shows varying degrees of "Middle East" in our Ancestry and MyHeritage results (anywhere from 2% to 8%).

    Also, I know "Mediterranean Islander" on DNA.Land has thrown many people off. For what it's worth, I fell smack in the middle of my parents' results: my dad showed 1.4%, my mom showed 29%, and I showed 13%.

    Again, my dad's family almost entirely comes from Gilan (Caspian Sea area), while my mom's family is likely a mix of Caucasian, Iranian Azeri, Kurdish, and Persian.
    Yeah your are my fellow 0% Arab lol, I seriously have no clue what kind of Arab DNA they have that caused them to show up as Arab while we have 0%. It could be that our population avoided Arab invasions/intermixing better or something, I have heard that Shomal held off Arabs the longest so that seems like a reasonable explanation. But my Bakhtiari family has lived near Iraq for hundreds of years and Qashqais had tribes that were of Arab origin, so my results still hard to explain but seem kinda consistent with the fact that I always come up pretty low for Arab DNA. And my very high Med Islander is another oddity that I do not know the answer to, my only guess is that it has something to with Cyprus and maybe my Turkish ancestry?

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    CHG admixture (puntDNAL K12)

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus_HG 40.24
    2 Anatolian_NF 23.68
    3 Near_East 11.86
    4 European_HG 10.22
    5 Siberian 4.86
    6 South_Asian 3.98
    7 East_Asian 3.91
    8 Amerindian 0.42
    9 South_African_HG 0.42
    10 Oceanian 0.29
    11 Sub-Saharan 0.07
    12 Beringian 0.05

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Turkish 5.59
    2 Kurdish 8.92
    3 Kumyk 9.49
    4 Turkish_Kayseri 10.06
    5 Iranian 10.86
    6 Turkish_Aydin 11.23
    7 Balkar 12.2
    8 Laz 12.82
    9 Chechen 13.15
    10 Turkish_Trabzon 13.48
    11 Assyrian 13.9
    12 Adygei 13.98
    13 Nogai 14.03
    14 Georgian_Jew 14.29
    15 North_Ossetian 14.54
    16 Armenian 14.77
    17 Iranian_Jew 15.6
    18 Lezgin 18.66
    19 Iraqi_Jew 18.74
    20 Georgian 19.16
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 08-19-2017 at 12:50 PM.

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    Has anyone else found that his/her Dodecad k12b and HarappaWorld results are almost identical? Here are my results (Iranian):

    HarappaWorld
    43.47 % - Caucasian
    25.91 % - Baloch
    11.71 % - Southwest Asian
    7.03 % - Northeast European
    4.58 % - Mediterranean
    3.45 % - South Indian
    1.27 % - Siberian

    Dodecad K12b
    41.33 % - Caucasus
    26.40 % - Gedrosia
    11.96 % - Southwest Asian
    7.66 % - North European
    6.12 % - Atlantic Mediterranean
    4.04 % - South Asian
    1.69 % - Siberian

    Also, does anyone know whether these calculators might exaggerate the Gedrosia/Baloch component for non-South Asians? (I know HarappaWorld's focus is South Asians.)

    Eurogenes k12b appears to give similar results, although the Gedrosia/Baloch component is swapped for West Central Asian, which likely encompasses different peoples:

    Eurogenes K12b
    38.12 % - Caucasian
    21.78 % - West Central Asian
    12.99 % - Mediterranean
    11.78 % - Southwest Asian
    6.03 % - North European
    4.80 % - South Asian
    2.33 % - West European
    1.80 % - Siberian

  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apex n Harmony View Post
    Has anyone else found that his/her Dodecad k12b and HarappaWorld results are almost identical? Here are my results (Iranian):

    Also, does anyone know whether these calculators might exaggerate the Gedrosia/Baloch component for non-South Asians? (I know HarappaWorld's focus is South Asians.)
    The Gedrosia/Baloch signal is nothing more than shared mutations at a few positions in Baloch/Brahui/Makranis. The fact that these mutations are shared with Kurds/W Iranians at a substantial subset of positions and the fact that frequencies of alleles for Baloch/Brahui/Makrani overlap allele frequencies for many positions For Kurds and W Iranians suggest not too distant a past when Kurds/W Iranians - Baloch/Brahui/Makrani diverged. What diffrentiates Kurds/W Iranians and Baloch is a little higher ASI type signal in the latter which was picked up after arriving at their present locations.

    The genetic connections between Kurds/W Iranians and NW Indians are very substantial. In addition to both populations being substantially Neolithic Iran N (recovered in Kurdistan region) derived, they also share more recent substructure likely mediated by west to east migrations of groups such as proto-Kurd/W Iranian derived groups such as ancestral Baloch over the past couple of thousand of years
    Last edited by Kurd; Today at 12:51 AM.
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  15. #30
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    Iran AchaemenidEmpire1 Iran Safavid Empire United States of America Kurdistan Iran Sassanid Empire
    HarrapaWorld
    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 39.18
    2 Baloch 28.33
    3 SW-Asian 12.31
    4 Mediterranean 5.18
    5 S-Indian 5.06
    6 NE-Euro 4.77
    7 American 1.68
    8 W-African 1.63
    9 SE-Asian 0.63
    10 E-African 0.5
    11 Pygmy 0.3
    12 Siberian 0.23
    13 Beringian 0.14
    14 San 0.06


    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 iranian (behar) 3.48
    2 iranian (harappa) 3.99
    3 kurd (harappa) 4.66
    4 kurd (xing) 6.4
    5 kurd (yunusbayev) 7.02
    6 turkish (harappa) 11.24
    7 azeri (harappa) 11.58
    8 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 11.78
    9 armenian (harappa) 13.1
    10 iraqi-arab (harappa) 13.44


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 86.6% kurd (xing) + 13.4% up-muslim (harappa) @ 2.24
    2 88.8% kurd (xing) + 11.2% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.26
    3 90% kurd (xing) + 10% caribbean-indian (harappa) @ 2.27
    4 89.3% kurd (xing) + 10.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 2.27
    5 90% kurd (xing) + 10% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 2.28
    6 89.2% kurd (xing) + 10.8% vaish (reich) @ 2.28
    7 89.3% kurd (xing) + 10.7% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.29
    8 89.7% kurd (xing) + 10.3% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.29
    9 89.9% kurd (xing) + 10.1% bihari (harappa) @ 2.31
    10 90.4% kurd (xing) + 9.6% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.31


    Dodecad K12B
    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 37.49
    2 Gedrosia 28.76
    3 Southwest_Asian 13.42
    4 North_European 6.02
    5 South_Asian 5.07
    6 Atlantic_Med 4.88
    7 Sub_Saharan 2.25
    8 Southeast_Asian 1.05
    9 East_Asian 0.66
    10 Siberian 0.34
    11 East_African 0.07


    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Iranians (Behar) 4.08
    2 Iranian (Dodecad) 4.57
    3 Kurd (Dodecad) 5.73
    4 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 6.72
    5 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 12.78
    6 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 14.88
    7 Turks (Behar) 17.09
    8 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 18.29
    9 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 18.3
    10 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 18.84


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 89% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 11% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 3.16
    2 90.1% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9.9% Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu (Metspalu) @ 3.19
    3 91% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9% INS30 (SGVP) @ 3.2
    4 90.7% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9.3% Iyengar (Dodecad) @ 3.2
    5 90.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9.8% Indian (Dodecad) @ 3.2
    6 90.5% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9.5% Iyer (Dodecad) @ 3.2
    7 90.9% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 9.1% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 3.22
    8 91.3% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 8.7% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 3.23
    9 91.2% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 8.8% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 3.23
    10 91.4% Kurds (Yunusbayev) + 8.6% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 3.25


    The components percentages are slightly different for me but I find the oracles are pretty damn similar. Which is nice because I do find these calculators are pretty accurate for certain people.

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