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Thread: MtDNA Full Sequencing (FTDNA) : What will it tell me?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    I am deeply interested in what mtDNA result testing give, but it has not helped my maternal family tree much at all. What will help you is to test some of your mothers maternal cousins/aunts and compare with her autosomal DNA. Armed with your cousins's results you will be able to work out in which part of her tree her matches are. Sorry to state this if you already know this stuff. It has not helped my maternal line either in my case!

    From your OP this is what your results will look like (mine attached) and I have 131 matches at GD=3, i.e. 131 people where our common ancestor is 3 mutations away and that is several thousand years ago (mtDNA has a wide variation in mutation rates)
    Attachment 18059
    Thank you so much, this is precisely what I was hoping to see. Unfortunately I can't get in contact with any relatives on my mother's side of the family, but I am in the process of having her DNA tested with Ancestry DNA so hopefully that will answer my questions. I was hoping deep mtDNA testing would be akin to Y DNA testing but unfortunately it appears to be much less useful. Thanks again!
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Irish (mostly lowland Scottish origin) 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  3. #12
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    Mine gave me a big fat mystery as to what a practically Baltic J2a1a1e was doing in Lebanon in the 1800s... Distant French/Italian ancestor, maybe?

    HVR1, HVR2, AND CODING REGION MATCHES

    GENETIC DISTANCE --1
    Haplogroup Country Comments Match Total
    J2a1a1e 1
    J2a1a1e Denmark - 3
    J2a1a1e France - 2
    J2a1a1e Germany - 5
    J2a1a1e Italy - 2
    J2a1a1e Lithuania - 1
    J2a1a1e Norway - 9
    J2a1a1e Poland - 1
    J2a1a1e Russian Federation - 1
    J2a1a1e Sweden - 3
    J2a1a1e Switzerland - 2
    J2a1a1e Syrian Arab Republic - 1
    J2a1a1e United Kingdom - 1
    J2a1a1e United States - 1
    R1b (aka M343) > M269 > L23 > L51 > L11 > P312 > DF19 > DF88 > FGC11833 > S4281 > S4268 > Z17112 (S17075-, L644-)

    Archaeological cousin: 6DRIF-23 of Driffield Terrace Roman Cemetery, York (Z17112+, S17075+, L644-)

    Known ancestors: Francis Cooke (I-M223/I2a2a) b. 1583; John Wing (U106) b. 1584; Richard Warren (M269Hidden Content ) b.c. 1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b. 1583; John Mead b.c. 1634 (I2a1/P37.2)

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Mine gave me a big fat mystery as to what a practically Baltic J2a1a1e was doing in Lebanon in the 1800s... Distant French/Italian ancestor, maybe?
    The credit might belong to the Barbary Pirates.

    Jack

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  7. #14
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    I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though
    Are some matches from places other than Finland?

    I think that I have posted this link before but it is appropriate to this discussion:

    https://mikedashhistory.com/2015/01/...dieval-crimea/

    Also I do not know if the Barbary Pirates raided as far away as Finland, but they did hit Iceland a few times. I believe the Icelandic population was somewhat mixed, but I do not know if it included Finn's.

    Jack Wyatt

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I've done a full sequence test and have four exact matches. My maternal grandmother is from Finland. Even though it's a small population, my matches and I can't trace back to a historical woman. But I still think it's a great way to trace demographics though
    Agree totally. It can be good for regionality - and more specific than most ethnicity tests.
    I have a similar experience, with close mtDNA matches linking to Cornwall/Devon.

    There was an unexpected bonus.
    One of my matches' oldest known ancestors had a rare name.
    Looked her up, and her husband also had a rare name from a one name study with a good tree.
    We turned out to have a common ancestor born circa 1480.
    Checking GEDmatch found someone else with my mtDNA haplogroup who had the same connection.
    The two descendants from that other line had tested with different labs and only one was at GEDmatch.
    It was a big surprise for them when I told them they were cousins with each other.

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  11. #17
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    Hey Sktibo, I've done full sequence mtDNA at FTDNA. I hoped it was going to help me somewhat with one of my brick walls on my matrilineal line which right now gets me back to my great-great-grandmother and her sister. They both list themselves as born in Scotland on every England census that I find them on, and their father deceased on both of their marriage certificates. Struggling to find evidence of them earlier than that, however.

    Full sequence refined my mt haplogroup from J1c1 at 23andme to J1c1b2. Running through the James Lick mtDNA tool also confirmed J1c1b2 and an extra private mutation. I got 31 full sequence (HVR1, HVR2, coding regions) matches at FTDNA - 2 with GD 0, 3 with GD 1, 18 with GD2 and the rest with GD 3 (I guess that's the threshold). None of these people appear to have a common ancestor with me on that line so it is likely that the connection is further back in time. I'm not sure if FTDNA includes non-phlyogenetic markers that are known to occur to often or change too quickly (eg. 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522- 523- 524- 16182C 16183C 16193.1C 16193.2C 16519C) in their GD calculations.

    The more I learned about mtDNA, the more I learned about it's relatively slow mutation rate. Behar's 2012 paper estimates the age of my maternal haplogroup to be 2,952.9 ± 2,242.7 years ago. That's (i) a fair while ago and (ii) a large variance. However, while the low mutation rate may not be great for ancestry purposes, it is good for us as functioning human beings. The part of the Y chromosome that can be sequenced is 59,373,566 bases long and the Y chromosome itself doesn't do a lot apart from determine gender, so the majority of mutations don't affect it's function so much. Mitochondrial DNA is much smaller at only 16,569 bases long so there's less opportunity for diversity. Furthermore, mitochondria are responsible for converting food into energy for our cells, and also contain ribosomal RNA and transfer RNA for constructing proteins. It's probably a good thing that those don't get mutated too much so as not to interfere with their function.

    My mt haplogroup is not especially common - eight J1c1b2 sequences on Genbank out of ~33,000, and only two of those with my extra mutation. I submitted my sequence data to Genbank hoping that in future it leads to further definition of a subclade downstream from J1c1b2 as well as refine the age estimate.

    So did it help me with my genealogy research and breaking through a brick wall? No, not really. But I did learn a lot from reading about about mtDNA and early population migrations, and my sequence is out there on FTDNA and Genbank for future testers to compare to. I think it will work best at dis-confirming potential matches on that line, rather than finding matches. If you want to see screenshots or have any questions, feel free to ask.

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Hey Sktibo, I've done full sequence mtDNA at FTDNA. I hoped it was going to help me somewhat with one of my brick walls on my matrilineal line which right now gets me back to my great-great-grandmother and her sister. They both list themselves as born in Scotland on every England census that I find them on, and their father deceased on both of their marriage certificates. Struggling to find evidence of them earlier than that, however.

    Full sequence refined my mt haplogroup from J1c1 at 23andme to J1c1b2. Running through the James Lick mtDNA tool also confirmed J1c1b2 and an extra private mutation. I got 31 full sequence (HVR1, HVR2, coding regions) matches at FTDNA - 2 with GD 0, 3 with GD 1, 18 with GD2 and the rest with GD 3 (I guess that's the threshold). None of these people appear to have a common ancestor with me on that line so it is likely that the connection is further back in time. I'm not sure if FTDNA includes non-phlyogenetic markers that are known to occur to often or change too quickly (eg. 309.1C 309.2C 315.1C 522- 523- 524- 16182C 16183C 16193.1C 16193.2C 16519C) in their GD calculations.

    The more I learned about mtDNA, the more I learned about it's relatively slow mutation rate. Behar's 2012 paper estimates the age of my maternal haplogroup to be 2,952.9 ± 2,242.7 years ago. That's (i) a fair while ago and (ii) a large variance. However, while the low mutation rate may not be great for ancestry purposes, it is good for us as functioning human beings. The part of the Y chromosome that can be sequenced is 59,373,566 bases long and the Y chromosome itself doesn't do a lot apart from determine gender, so the majority of mutations don't affect it's function so much. Mitochondrial DNA is much smaller at only 16,569 bases long so there's less opportunity for diversity. Furthermore, mitochondria are responsible for converting food into energy for our cells, and also contain ribosomal RNA and transfer RNA for constructing proteins. It's probably a good thing that those don't get mutated too much so as not to interfere with their function.

    My mt haplogroup is not especially common - eight J1c1b2 sequences on Genbank out of ~33,000, and only two of those with my extra mutation. I submitted my sequence data to Genbank hoping that in future it leads to further definition of a subclade downstream from J1c1b2 as well as refine the age estimate.

    So did it help me with my genealogy research and breaking through a brick wall? No, not really. But I did learn a lot from reading about about mtDNA and early population migrations, and my sequence is out there on FTDNA and Genbank for future testers to compare to. I think it will work best at dis-confirming potential matches on that line, rather than finding matches. If you want to see screenshots or have any questions, feel free to ask.
    Thank you so much for taking the time to share that with me, that's very interesting and I think you make a particularly good point about it potentially being something for the future. One day I'd like to get mine done, but it's hard to justify spending the cash on it when I know now it won't help with my paper trail
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Irish (mostly lowland Scottish origin) 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  15. #19
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    Yeah, unfortunately you won't be able to predict how useful it will be towards genealogy until you do it. However, it seems that most of what I've read for most people it's not been very helpful for recent ancestry. However, there's always exceptions.

    Going back to your analysis of the mtDNA using James Lick's mthap tool, he does have a FAQ here: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/FAQ.html

    I found it most useful when I understood what the colour codes of the SNPs referred to - main ones are green for a match (SNP phylogenetic to that haplogroup), red for a mismatch, blue for an "extra" (SNP not associated with how the haplogroup is defined on the current build of the phylotree). Also that markers in parentheses are not used for scoring as they are non-phylogenetic or uncertain, such as mutating too frequently.

    It assigned my FTDNA full sequence data as J1c1b2 with a good match and imperfect match for J1c12ba as I don't have the defining markers. Maybe the extra mutation will define J1c1b2b/c/d in the future.

    The tool wasn't so conclusive with my 23andme data (which it looks like is the same in your case). The best it does is J1c1 and all the downstream clades it has either mismatches or in most cases, markers not tested. I guess any predictor is only as good as the data that it's analyzing.

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  17. #20
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    Besides my (and my Mom's) haplotype mystery, the mtDNA testing was useful in independently confirming (or at least not refuting) my Dad's matrilineal descent from Elizabeth Walker Warren (the only woman to be listed as a "Purchaser" in the Plymouth colony).
    R1b (aka M343) > M269 > L23 > L51 > L11 > P312 > DF19 > DF88 > FGC11833 > S4281 > S4268 > Z17112 (S17075-, L644-)

    Archaeological cousin: 6DRIF-23 of Driffield Terrace Roman Cemetery, York (Z17112+, S17075+, L644-)

    Known ancestors: Francis Cooke (I-M223/I2a2a) b. 1583; John Wing (U106) b. 1584; Richard Warren (M269Hidden Content ) b.c. 1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b. 1583; John Mead b.c. 1634 (I2a1/P37.2)

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