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Thread: Origin of North African Berber founder?

  1. #1
    Registered Users

    Origin of North African Berber founder?

    According to Eupedia the North African Berber marker E-M81 is only 2000/2500 years old and it's quick growth and spread could potentially coincide with with either Phoenician/Carthaginian Empire or later destruction of Carthage and emergence of Roman Carthage.. There seems to be many fantastical theories on origins of founders 🤔
    Was browsing Punic history on Wikipedia and came across "Massinissa" king of Numidia?
    His father was involved in first Punic war then he himself involved in both second and third. Amongst Berbers he is thought of as the iconic forefather in modern Berber culture.
    He united the Numidian tribes created the Numidian Empire which he expanded to cover the whole of North Africa.. His descendants also governed Roman Carthage and North Africa as Client states for Rome 🤔
    Massinissa lived till he was almost 100 years old!!
    Could his forefather,himself or his descendants be the Origin and founder of haplogroup
    E-M81 and root of its subclade's Berber expansion in this time period in North Africa?
    Any theories? 🤔
    Last edited by Claudio; 08-07-2017 at 10:36 AM.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Claudio For This Useful Post:

     NiloSaharan (08-07-2017), Rach_27 (08-07-2017)

  3. #2
    Rio de Janeiro Colonial
    J1a1 FGC6064+ M365+

    Yes, impressive recent growth with multiple branches occurring at almost the same time.
    J1 FGC5987 to FGC6175 (188 new SNPs)
    MDKAs before Colonial Brazil
    Y-DNA - Milhazes, Barcelos, Minho, Portugal.
    mtDNA - Ilha Terceira, Azores, Portugal

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RCO For This Useful Post:

     dp (08-08-2017), NiloSaharan (08-07-2017)

  5. #3
    Registered Users

    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    Yes, impressive recent growth with multiple branches occurring at almost the same time.
    This is interesting..

    If we think of Zelalsen as 344BC.
    As Founder of E-M81 🤔

    "Kings of Numidia"..

    "House of Masinissa"
    Later ruled unbroken for over 250 years!

    (Kings of Eastern Numidia)
    -Zelalsen 344BC
    - "Masinissa" 206BC

    (Kings of Western Numidia)
    -Syphax 215BC

    (Unified Kingdom of Numidia)
    -"Masinissa" 202BC
    -Mastsnabal 148BC
    -Hiepsal the 1st
    -Hiarbas 81BC

    (Eastern Numidia)
    -Hiepsal the 2nd 88BC
    -Juba 1st
    -Juba 2nd 30BC (Married Cleopatra's daughter expands Roman Mauretania (Morocco) succeeded by there son
    "Ptolemy" who is eventually assassinated in Rome by "Caligula" lol

    (Western Numidia)
    -Masterbar 80BC
    -Masinissa the 2nd
    -Arabio 44BC

    Interestingly enough though the different kingdoms above changed borders over time and expanded and detracted they encompassed at times the whole of North Africa 🤔

    Even more interesting from a genetic point of view is that if you click on every ruler listed here above on Wikipedia you will notice amazingly that every single one of them is "Paternally" related!

    Something else of interest..
    E-M81 peaks within Europe in Cantabria in northern Spain 🤔

    Juba the 2nd was brought to Rome after his father Juba the 1st's defeat and raised by Julius Caesar and later his nephew Octavian(future emperor Augustus).
    Juba accompanied Octavian on military campaigns and were lifelong friends..
    When Octavian eventually became Emperor (Emperor Augustus) he restored Juba as king of Numidia in 29BC.
    Juba became the most loyal Client king that served Rome. In 26BC Augustus arranged a marriage between Cleopatra Seline (daughter of Cleopatra last of the Ptolemy)and King Juba as a reward for Juba's kingdoms military work in Spain during Augustus military campaign known as the "Cantabrian wars" centered in "Cantabria"
    29-19 BC 🤔
    As "Cantabria" was never known as a Moorish settlement could the reason Cantabria has a high percentage of E-M81 be due to the noted displacement and destruction of the Cantabrian population in the campaign and subsequent settlements of Numidian/Mauritanian E-M81 carrying Troops settling during and after Juba's military Campaign ended?
    Juba is also noted for restoring and expanding trade throughout the Western Mediterranean from Mauritania at this time period especially across Spain. 🤔
    Last edited by Claudio; 08-08-2017 at 06:28 PM.

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