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Thread: AncestryDNA results from across Europe

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    I once read from an old school anthropologist, some of whose terminology is ostensibly outdated now, that English nationalism was the rise of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon type, Irish nationalism the rise of the Upper Paleolithic Brunn type and Scottish nationalism was the rise of the Atlanto-med plus native Irish in the West and the rise of the bronze age Scandinavian type (Tronder ?) in the NorthEast.

    Anyway, I certainly don't look Brunn my phenotype is more Atlantid than anything.
    Attached a good example of Irishman (County Clare) with an Upper Palaeolithic Brünn type (mesocephalic)
    troe092.jpg

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    PuntDNAL K12: 62% Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103+38% Starcevo_MN_I0174

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    Well, there is one side of the family , namely, my paternal grandfather who I can't find any information on but he used to tell everyone his family was from Ulster Donegal Ireland. However, Donegal had both native Irish and Scotch-Irish people living there. My Paternal grandmother I was able to trace her father to London England but she was probably an English/Scottish mix overall. My maternal grandfather was supposedly from Munster Ireland and my maternal grandmother was from Alsace-Lorraine but I could trace some of her family all the way back to Prussia because people from Alsace-Lorraine are kind of like the ethnic Germans of France.

    So, I am a mutt but the question is whether my mutt mix is analogous to the British/Scottish mutt mix since the British are mutts too, of course. I mean genetically how much difference could there be between Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaidligh ? Also, Mary Queen of Scots could trace ancestors to Lorraine France that is where her Royal House of Guise was.

    I once read from an old school anthropologist, some of whose terminology is ostensibly outdated now, that English nationalism was the rise of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon type, Irish nationalism the rise of the Upper Paleolithic Brunn type and Scottish nationalism was the rise of the Atlanto-med plus native Irish in the West and the rise of the bronze age Scandinavian type (Tronder ?) in the NorthEast.

    Anyway, I certainly don't look Brunn my phenotype is more Atlantid than anything.
    I wouldn't put any weight into physical anthropology, your physical appearance is only a small part of your genetic makeup and if you're mixed I really don't think it can hold much or any value.

    Gaelic Scottish will really depend on what region of Scotland, the outer Hebrides, such as Lewis, will have more Scandinavian admixture for example... but Western Scottish will more or less be indistinguishable from Ireland unless you're examining it very closely. This is something I really would love to be able to see the divide in with myself too, Highland vs Lowland, Ireland vs Scotland, ect, but these are all such closely related populations that I don't think the technology is there yet. All of the Isles populations plus Lower Rhine German and Dutch all descend from the same Bell Beaker base population and it gets really tricky sorting them out, and when we're looking at the Irish and Scottish it's even trickier to split them up.

    So, we're waiting for what looks to be quite a long time, certainly years, but if we hang in there and manage to continue to survive it looks likely that we might be able to answer these questions. I'm hopeful for the long term.
    Paper trail ancestry to the best of my knowledge:
    English 28.12%, East German or Eastern European 25%, Scottish 17.96%, Scotch-Irish 12.5%, French 8.2%, Welsh 3.125%, Native American 1.95%, and Colonial American, 3.125%, which cannot be determined with complete certainty: there is Dutch (at least 1.36%) and some English. The rest could include Spanish, Norwegian, German, and French, but these percentages would be minuscule.

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  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I wouldn't put any weight into physical anthropology, your physical appearance is only a small part of your genetic makeup and if you're mixed I really don't think it can hold much or any value.
    I was already aware that phenotype is only a small subset of the underlying genotype but humans are a complicated social species and your phenotype has to have more social impact than your non-visible autosomal DNA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sktibo
    Gaelic Scottish will really depend on what region of Scotland, the outer Hebrides, such as Lewis, will have more Scandinavian admixture for example... but Western Scottish will more or less be indistinguishable from Ireland unless you're examining it very closely. This is something I really would love to be able to see the divide in with myself too, Highland vs Lowland, Ireland vs Scotland, ect, but these are all such closely related populations that I don't think the technology is there yet. All of the Isles populations plus Lower Rhine German and Dutch all descend from the same Bell Beaker base population and it gets really tricky sorting them out, and when we're looking at the Irish and Scottish it's even trickier to split them up. So, we're waiting for what looks to be quite a long time, certainly years, but if we hang in there and manage to continue to survive it looks likely that we might be able to answer these questions. I'm hopeful for the long term.
    No argument from me here. I totally agree.

  5. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    Well, there is one side of the family , namely, my paternal grandfather who I can't find any information on but he used to tell everyone his family was from Ulster Donegal Ireland. However, Donegal had both native Irish and Scotch-Irish people living there. My Paternal grandmother I was able to trace her father to London England but she was probably an English/Scottish mix overall. My maternal grandfather was supposedly from Munster Ireland and my maternal grandmother was from Alsace-Lorraine but I could trace some of her family all the way back to Prussia because people from Alsace-Lorraine are kind of like the ethnic Germans of France.

    So, I am a mutt but the question is whether my mutt mix is analogous to the British/Scottish mutt mix since the British are mutts too, of course. I mean genetically how much difference could there be between Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaidligh ? Also, Mary Queen of Scots could trace ancestors to Lorraine France that is where her Royal House of Guise was.

    I once read from an old school anthropologist, some of whose terminology is ostensibly outdated now, that English nationalism was the rise of the Germanic Anglo-Saxon type, Irish nationalism the rise of the Upper Paleolithic Brunn type and Scottish nationalism was the rise of the Atlanto-med plus native Irish in the West and the rise of the bronze age Scandinavian type (Tronder ?) in the NorthEast.

    Anyway, I certainly don't look Brunn my phenotype is more Atlantid than anything.
    With regards to Donegal what's the specific surname? As for difference between Irish and Scottish Gaidhlig, well for an english speaker the best comparison would to think about the differences between Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. The divergence between modern Irish and modern Scottish Gaidhlig probably dates back on order of 1,000 years, though obviously they shared a common literary standard in the shape of 'Early Modern Irish' until the 16-17th centuries.
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  7. #175
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    Here are my AncestryDNA Ethnicity Estimate results -

    AncestryDNA Ethnicity Estimate.jpg

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  9. #176
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    Where are you from?

  10. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
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  11. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    I was already aware that phenotype is only a small subset of the underlying genotype but humans are a complicated social species and your phenotype has to have more social impact than your non-visible autosomal DNA.
    Well, I guess that did not make much sense as autosomal DNA controls or programs a vast array of functions including social but I think you know what I meant. I meant humans are kind of superficial socially and phenotype is superficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthact
    With regards to Donegal what's the specific surname? As for difference between Irish and Scottish Gaidhlig, well for an english speaker the best comparison would to think about the differences between Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. The divergence between modern Irish and modern Scottish Gaidhlig probably dates back on order of 1,000 years, though obviously they shared a common literary standard in the shape of 'Early Modern Irish' until the 16-17th centuries.
    Last name is Burke which is traditionally Hiberno-Norman Catholic but there were other Anglo-Normans like famous British statesman, from Ireland, Edmund Burke who were Protestant.
    Last edited by Teutorigos; 09-13-2017 at 10:41 PM.

  12. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teutorigos View Post
    Well, I guess that did not make much sense as autosomal DNA controls or programs a vast array of functions including social but I think you know what I meant. I meant humans are kind of superficial socially and phenotype is superficial.



    Last name is Burke which is traditionally Hiberno-Norman Catholic but there were other Anglo-Normans like famous British statesman, from Ireland, Edmund Burke who were Protestant.
    In case of Edmund Burke though his father possibly had converted to Church of Ireland from Catholicism, leaving that aside Edmund's mother was a Catholic and his sister was brought up as one.

    In the 1901 census there were 152 Burke's in Donegal, of whom 133 were Catholic, and at least 14 were Presbyterian.
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  13. #180
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    Burke is a dead certain Irish name. There won't be too many Scots in Donegal.

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