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Thread: Abstracts from SMBE 2017

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    No one mentioned if they compared Tianyuan and MA-1. If MA-1 is less related to Tianyuan than East Asians then Native Americans should be too, but that wasn't implied. Some of them seem to be excessively Tianyuan in fact.

    OTOH Goyet's Native American affinity is relatively low, Villabruna cluster scores higher in that regard.
    MA1 will be close to Tianyuan, it has about half that same funkyness as GoyetQ-116.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim LaBrana1 MA1 0.0102 1.756 35061 34353 638962
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim Loschbour MA1 0.0064 1.122 37100 36627 677413
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim Motala_HG MA1 0.0124 2.49 33656 32830 632149

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 LaBrana1 -0.0209 -3.108 32326 33705 630038
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 Loschbour -0.0159 -2.62 33755 34842 649774
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 Motala_HG -0.0201 -3.661 33512 34885 635312

    It's also as close to Ust_Ishim as Native Americans are.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim MA1 Karitiana -0.0031 -0.593 36390 36619 683873

    But here's the thing...MA1 isn't really the ancestor of Native Americans...AfontovaGora3 seems to be a lot closer.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 AfontovaGora3 -0.0265 -3.482 10033 10580 195115
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim MA1 AfontovaGora3 -0.0191 -2.308 4913 5104 123903

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim AfontovaGora3 Karitiana 0.0053 0.919 11634 11510 232022


    Woops...
    Last edited by Kale; 07-20-2017 at 06:02 PM.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    MA1 will be close to Tianyuan, it has about half that same funkyness as GoyetQ-116.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim LaBrana1 MA1 0.0102 1.756 35061 34353 638962
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim Loschbour MA1 0.0064 1.122 37100 36627 677413
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim Motala_HG MA1 0.0124 2.49 33656 32830 632149

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 LaBrana1 -0.0209 -3.108 32326 33705 630038
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 Loschbour -0.0159 -2.62 33755 34842 649774
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 Motala_HG -0.0201 -3.661 33512 34885 635312

    It's also as close to Ust_Ishim as Native Americans are.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim MA1 Karitiana -0.0031 -0.593 36390 36619 683873

    But here's the thing...MA1 isn't really the ancestor of Native Americans...AfontovaGora3 seems to be a lot closer.

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim GoyetQ116-1 AfontovaGora3 -0.0265 -3.482 10033 10580 195115
    Mbuti Ust_Ishim MA1 AfontovaGora3 -0.0191 -2.308 4913 5104 123903

    Mbuti Ust_Ishim AfontovaGora3 Karitiana 0.0053 0.919 11634 11510 232022


    Woops...
    Those stats have nothing to do with whose admixture created Native Americans.

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  5. #113
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    Native Americans weren't really the focus of that post, so...congratulations, you win?

    The point is Tianyuan will probably be more related to MA1 than to AG3.

    If you really want, there's this...
    Mbuti Karitiana MA1 AfontovaGora3 0.0241 3.553 170325
    But I thought that was kind of common knowledge.

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  7. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    Well as I said, there are no remains, which would be ideal, but typologically it does seem clear, at least acc. to Prof Hublin from max Planck

    "There is a growing trend to group assemblages sharing specific

    techno-typological attributes under the denomination “IUP” rather

    than to simply lump together all of those belonging to a time period

    predating the European UP (Kuhn and Zwyns, 2014). Beyond the

    Levant area, this definition of the IUP seems to be applicable to a

    series of industries covering a wide geographical domain (Fig. 1).

    Tsanova and Bordes (2003), Tsanova (2008) and Teyssandier (2008)

    have identified similar techniques for blank production in sites

    from eastern Europe, among which one should mention Temnata

    and Bacho Kiro (Layer 11) in Bulgaria, as well as the sites yielding

    Bohunician in Moravia (

    Skrdla, 2003). In all of these sites, one finds

    a combination of techniques aiming at the production of elongated

    products using the narrow side of large cores by bipolar or unipolar

    debitage. Here again the products look like elongated Levallois

    points. The similarities in knapping techniques between the

    Bohunician and the Levantine Emirian assemblages has also been

    pointed out by Bar-Yosef (2003, 2007), Tostevin (2003),

    Skrdla

    (2003) and Hoffecker (2009), who highlight the lack of continuity

    between the local Middle Palaeolithic traditions from central

    Europe and these IUP assemblages."
    The Initial Upper Paleolithic (IUP) of central Europe was obviously ancestral to the Early Upper Paleolithic of arctic Eurasia, where the microblades are complemented with bi-polar debitage, a technique found in Europe since the Lower Paleolithic - to produce equistite handcraft in pure flint; of symetric, bi-facial leave-foromed arrowheads. The succession in materials, forms and craftmanship from Mode 2 (Lavalois) to Mode 5 (microburins) is anything but linear, due to climatical fluctations and severe decimations of the arctic populations of Northern Eurasia during the last million years of Eurasias ice-time. The very same materials, tools, forms and craftmanship starts re-appearing around the major flint-mines of NW Europe as soon as the last and coldest phase of ice-time ceases to exist - and the Holocene warm period starts picking up, 12.000 BP.
    http://www.teachinghistory100.org/ob...sburgh_handaxe

    Acting objectively on todays amount of information from the new paleo-sciences, as well as archaeology,and ancient genetics, we may have to expect a continuity from ancient antiquity to mesolithic/neolithic Europe, indicating a common origin to the techno-complaexes seen in the forthcomming Acheulien period, which transformed into a Moustrien/Aurignac/Solutrean/Magdalien/Hamburg-cultures of occidental Europe and the Bochunian/Szeletian/Gravettian traditions of craftmanship found in the oriental part of arctic Eurasia.
    http://www.aggsbach.de/2016/12/the-i...the-old-world/
    http://www.aggsbach.de/tag/bohunician/

    Which means that the origin of the 'caucasian' fenotypes (palefaced, longlimbed) and their due haplotypes (y-dna F-T/mt-dna R+) can be explained as the various populations branching out across Eurasia, from Iberia to Siberia, duirng the initial centuries of the Holocene. Unfortunately, the phrase 'Caucasian' is sometime confused by the hypothetical term "AMH". John Hawks old take on the appearance of "AMH" seem to fit perfectly well with the appearance of the "Anatomically Modern Caucasians" as a result of "Paleolithic Europeans", rather than the highly hypothetical and unlikely migration from the pleasant tropics of Africa to the arid tundra and taiga of LUP Eurasia.

    Only a 'colonization' of the Europe during the Middle paleolithoic - by a branch of "AMH" able to adapt to the cold and darkness of Northern Eurasia - can explain the high-arctic populations appearing by the Arctic Ocean 40.000 years ago. Thus the European Genome - per se - should be far older, which begs for a closer explanation to the paleolithic population that managed to survive both LGM and the YD north of the Alps - and re-appear across Eurasia after ice-time, as "anatimically modern palcefaces", also known as 'Caucasians'. Such as Fumane, Ust-Istim, Pestera Oase, Goyet and Malta, who all descended from a an arctic nature and culture of Paleolithic Eursaia - geneticall isolated from the tropical populations of paleolithic Africa, India, Asia and South America, until the very end of Ice-Time, as the giant glaciers of Europe and N Asia disappeared and the arctic palefaces finally could escape their refugias in NW Europe.
    http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/...ic_europe.html
    Last edited by Boreas; 10-13-2017 at 12:11 AM.

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