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Thread: A new paper on Ashkenazi Jews.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    Nice work. Can you model Assyrians too? They probably have a good amount of Southern Levantine ancestry.
    Iran_Chl doesn't work too well with Assyrians for some odd reason (this will probably change when we get ancient DNA from Mesopotamia), either way if we use Armenia_EBA (which is basically Kura-Araxes) this is what they get:

    [1] "distance%=0.2098 / distance=0.002098"

    Assyrian:average

    Armenia_EBA:average 68.70
    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 28.65
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 2.65



    [1] "distance%=0.2159 / distance=0.002159"

    Assyrian:average

    Armenia_EBA:average 70.8
    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 25.6
    Jordan_EBA:average 3.6



    [1] "distance%=0.3081 / distance=0.003081"

    Assyrian:average

    Armenia_EBA:average 66.15
    Jordan_EBA:average 26.00
    Boncuklu_Neolithic:average 7.85


    The last fit is rather interesting, as Jordan_EBA is probably very similar to what the Proto-Semites were like from a genetic standpoint. However it would be far-fetched to conclude that the Assyrians are slightly over 1/4 Akkadian as they probably mingled with scores of Semitic-speaking peoples that must've been near-identical to Jordan_EBA, including Amorites (the Bronze Age Jordanians probably were Amorites themselves).
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  3. #12
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    A possible explanation for the diluted Levantine in Eastern Jews is less endogamy from greater integration and comparatively less historical persecution in Mesopotamian Persian and Muslim society than that experienced by Western Jews.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    A possible explanation for the diluted Levantine in Eastern Jews is less endogamy from greater integration and comparatively less historical persecution in Mesopotamian Persian and Muslim society than that experienced by Western Jews.
    Doubtful, IMO this is merely due to the fact that Mesopotamia had the oldest Jewish community outside the land of Israel... That is to say a long time before intermarriage was frowned upon, therefore they had plenty of time to mix with their host population. Otherwise, Muslim societies were every bit as repressive as Christian ones, if not more to some extent, so well that the region's ethno-religious make up came to be even more contrasted.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  7. #14
    So if we don't count Samaritians for being too inbred then are Mizrahi the closest?

  8. #15
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    These findings were compatible with the hypothesis of an Irano-Turko-Slavic origin for AJs and a Slavic origin for Yiddish and at odds with the Rhineland hypothesis advocating a Levantine origin for AJs and German origins for Yiddish.
    How somebody could postulate Yddish isn't derived from old High German, and Slavic instead?

    Maybe Khazar theorists could link it to Crimean Gothic?

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    wow huge italian admixture in sefhardic
    by your model
    25% tuscan + 10% bergamo nice
    probably roman empire converts thats why they share signatures
    which sefhardic did you used mororocan jews ?
    or turkish bulgarian jews

    regards
    adam


    p.s
    the slavic admixture is probably 8-10% not 13% as you mentioned correctly
    anyway it is there sefhardic lack it
    and aschenazi lack the 6% iberian fit in the sefhardic and the 10% bergamo ....
    they share the middle eastern elments
    levant neolithic
    + iran chalcolitic

    we can't ran away from partly roman origins to the sefhardic jews as long has bergamo there ....
    Last edited by kingjohn; 07-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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    1 Druze + Lithuanian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians @ 0.000000 Hidden Content Hidden Content

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  11. #17
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    Ashkenazi origins has developed into a kind of crap magnet these past few years, possibly because the nonsense that gets published creates a perception that the topic itself is somehow "tainted" (it's not!) and serious scholars prefer to steer clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Doubtful, IMO this is merely due to the fact that Mesopotamia had the oldest Jewish community outside the land of Israel... That is to say a long time before intermarriage was frowned upon, therefore they had plenty of time to mix with their host population. Otherwise, Muslim societies were every bit as repressive as Christian ones, if not more to some extent, so well that the region's ethno-religious make up came to be even more contrasted.
    they have long time to mix you are correct that explain my indo -iranian in dna land and the lack of it in my brother
    and the pakistan in dna tribes
    can't wait for my father results i think i got those pakistani signitures from him .
    ..

    p.s
    why they don't publish paper on sefhardic jews
    too many paper on aschenazi jews and none on sefhardi why
    Last edited by kingjohn; 07-03-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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    do

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    1 Druze + Lithuanian + S_Italian_Sicilian + Samaritians @ 0.000000 Hidden Content Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    they have long time to mix you are correct that explain my indo -iranian in dna land and the lack of it in my brother
    and the pakistan in dna tribes
    can't wait for my father results i think i got those pakistani signitures from him .
    ..

    p.s
    why they don't publish paper on sefhardic jews
    too many paper on aschenazi jews and none on sefhardi why
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    wow huge italian admixture in sefhardic
    by your model
    25% tuscan + 10% bergamo nice
    probably roman empire converts thats why they share signatures
    which sefhardic did you used mororocan jews ?
    or turkish bulgarian jews

    regards
    adam


    p.s
    the slavic admixture is probably 8-10% not 13% as you mentioned correctly
    anyway it is there sefhardic lack it
    and aschenazi lack the 6% iberian fit in the sefhardic and the 10% bergamo ....
    they share the middle eastern elments
    levant neolithic
    + iran chalcolitic

    we can't ran away from partly roman origins to the sefhardic jews as long has bergamo there ....
    FWIW Northern Italians tend to come out very close to Iberians on most calculators, and could possibly be a better proxy for pre-Moorish invasion Iberian ancestry than contemporary Iberians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    wow huge italian admixture in sefhardic
    by your model
    25% tuscan + 10% bergamo nice
    probably roman empire converts thats why they share signatures
    which sefhardic did you used mororocan jews ?
    or turkish bulgarian jews

    regards
    adam


    p.s
    the slavic admixture is probably 8-10% not 13% as you mentioned correctly
    anyway it is there sefhardic lack it
    and aschenazi lack the 6% iberian fit in the sefhardic and the 10% bergamo ....
    they share the middle eastern elments
    levant neolithic
    + iran chalcolitic

    we can't ran away from partly roman origins to the sefhardic jews as long has bergamo there ....
    Sefhatic Jews where kicked out of Iberia ~1480AD and this includes Spanish Morocco and Algeria ( oran )..........most went to Netherlands and then to Britain and others through the town of valencia went to Venice ( genoese took them to Nice, and ligurian lands ) , Venice sent them either to Germany with the German merchants or took them to the Levant but the truly wealthy Jews went to ferrara and Tuscany. The rich Jews due to the law in Venice of not allowing usury ( loaning money for profit ) departed for central italy.
    So to me sephatic jews in Tuscany should be high , towns like livorno, Pisa and Lucca, .....................Bergamo ( near switzerland and austria ) seems odd,
    Last edited by vettor; 07-03-2017 at 07:57 PM.

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