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Thread: A new paper on Ashkenazi Jews.

  1. #1
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    A new paper on Ashkenazi Jews.

    The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish

    http://journal.frontiersin.org/artic...017.00087/full

    "Recently, the geographical origins of Ashkenazic Jews (AJs) and their native language Yiddish were investigated by applying the Geographic Population Structure (GPS) to a cohort of exclusively Yiddish-speaking and multilingual AJs. GPS localized most AJs along major ancient trade routes in northeastern Turkey adjacent to primeval villages with names that resemble the word “Ashkenaz.” These findings were compatible with the hypothesis of an Irano-Turko-Slavic origin for AJs and a Slavic origin for Yiddish and at odds with the Rhineland hypothesis advocating a Levantine origin for AJs and German origins for Yiddish. We discuss how these findings advance three ongoing debates concerning (1) the historical meaning of the term “Ashkenaz;” (2) the genetic structure of AJs and their geographical origins as inferred from multiple studies employing both modern and ancient DNA and original ancient DNA analyses; and (3) the development of Yiddish. We provide additional validation to the non-Levantine origin of AJs using ancient DNA from the Near East and the Levant. Due to the rising popularity of geo-localization tools to address questions of origin, we briefly discuss the advantages and limitations of popular tools with focus on the GPS approach. Our results reinforce the non-Levantine origins of AJs."
    I haven't read it, but I'm figuring that the Canannite paper finding Iranianlike admixture in Canaan would address the Persian.

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    I haven't read it yet either, but don't expect it to be much more than nonsense considering Elhaik and Wexler are authors. Elhaik is the guy who claimed Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Khazars based on similarities between Ashkenazi Jews and Armenians. Wexler has various theories about Yiddish accepted by no other linguist other than one who writes remarkably similarly to Wexler himself and publishes under a pseudonym.

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    Sounds like a bs paper in all honesty. I can't find a single paper that compares DNA of AJ with other Jewish groups of Levantine descent, (Persian, Sephardi groups) and then compares the similarity of AJ on a PCA with Turkish and Slav vs the similarity of Levantine based Jews. I doubt not a single paper that did that could conclude that AJ are Turkish based.

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    This paper is pushing a debunked crank theory.

    Anyone on GEDmatch can quickly find that AJ are a mixture of Levantine and European, and closely resemble Italians.

    There are a multitude of papers proving this, though there have been some false steps, mostly I think because some researchers are uncomfortable with evidence that AJ were founded predominantly by male Levantine Jews that intermarried with European women, probably in Italy and Southern Europe during the Roman Empire. Thereafter they were mostly endogamous.

    What I'd like to see is a study comparing modern AJ to the ancient Bronze Age Canaanite genomes analyzed in Haber et al 2017. Then we can really look at how much of their ancestry traces back to post Neolithic west Asians and how much is European admixture.

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    It's mostly a load of nonsense, I've already mentioned the Das gang's former paper here. I tend to view this as an experiment designed to prove that the craziest theories can still get past the peer review process.

    Wexler is a crook and a nutbag, his theories are self-defeating (literally), Elhaik is also arguing against the data. There's much to bet that the motivation here is purely political, at least I'm quite sure this is true in Wexler's case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    What I'd like to see is a study comparing modern AJ to the ancient Bronze Age Canaanite genomes analyzed in Haber et al 2017. Then we can really look at how much of their ancestry traces back to post Neolithic west Asians and how much is European admixture.
    Haber et al. modeled the Sidon_BA samples as Levant_N + Iran_Chl, this is what Ashkenazi Jews get if I use K7:

    [1] "distance%=0.2834 / distance=0.002834"

    Ashkenazi_Jew:average

    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 38.50
    Italian_Tuscan:average 25.70
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 19.70
    Polish:average 13.35
    Lithuanian:average 2.75


    A very good fit, which is in line with Ashkenazim being 55% to 60% Levantine in origin on average (usually around 57%).
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 06-29-2017 at 06:34 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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    Most Ashkenazi Jews cluster close to modern day Southern Italians, this is mainly due to being descent from Romanite, Italkim Jews. This article is complete bullshit.
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    Most likely fit is 68% (+- 11.8%) Europe (various subcontinents)
    and 32% (+- 11.8%) Mideast (various subcontinents)


    Hungary 0.7479 Jewish 0.2521
    Romania 0.9359 Jewish 0.0641
    Germany 0.6305 Sephardic 0.3695
    Hungary 0.7310 Sephardic 0.2690
    Poland 0.5583 Sephardic 0.4417


    Eurogenes K13
    Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + East_Sicilian + La_Brana-1 @ 5.135429

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    Most Ashkenazi Jews cluster close to modern day Southern Italians, this is mainly due to being descent from Romanite, Italkim Jews. This article is complete bullshit.
    I just have the feeling that no one has come up with the correct explanation, at least for the female side.

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    Very neat! A little more Polish/Lithuanian than I had anticipated.

    If you've got Sephardi and other Jewish groups as well, I'm curious to see how they'd compare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    Very neat! A little more Polish/Lithuanian than I had anticipated.

    If you've got Sephardi and other Jewish groups as well, I'm curious to see how they'd compare.
    I suspect the Eastern European is inflated by a factor of ~2 here. Anyway, this is what Sephardim get:

    [1] "distance%=0.175 / distance=0.00175"

    Sephardic_Jew:average

    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 36.70
    Italian_Tuscan:average 24.30
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 20.10
    Italian_Bergamo:average 10.85
    Spanish:average 6.35
    Avar:average 1.70


    Avar should be added to Levant_N and Iran_Chl, in many cases it improves the fit (my father is a pretty good example of this actually). All in all they're extremely similar to Ashkenazim (they're basically a single population anyway, but you won't see Elhaik saying it).

    This is what Mizrahi Jews get:

    [1] "distance%=0.1952 / distance=0.001952"

    Iraqi_Jew:average

    Assyrian:average 43.15
    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 28.70
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 26.70
    Avar:average 1.45



    [1] "distance%=0.1909 / distance=0.001909"

    Iranian_Jew:average

    Assyrian:average 41.4
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 31.6
    Levant_Neolithic:I1704 24.9

    Iranian_Zoroastrian:average 2.1


    Mizrahi Jews are by and large of Mesopotamian origin, so it's extremely likely Iran_Chl comprises some of their Mesopotamian ancestry. Samaritans are likely to be the closest contemporary population to Sidon_BA, so they're probably a better proxy for actual Judean ancestry in their case:

    [1] "distance%=0.1369 / distance=0.001369"

    Iraqi_Jew:average

    Assyrian:average 47.05
    Samaritan 39.30
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 9.85
    Avar:average 3.80


    [1] "distance%=0.1115 / distance=0.001115"

    Iranian_Jew:average

    Assyrian:average 39.95
    Samaritan 36.65
    Iran_Chalcolithic:average 18.45
    Avar:average 4.00
    Iranian_Zoroastrian:average 0.95


    ^^These fits make much more sense, they're in line with what Mizrahim usually get, like I said they're basically a Mesopotamian population. As incredible as it might sound, Western Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Italian, Romaniote, North African, Syrian, Egyptian, etc) seem to have inherited larger chunks of Israelite/Judean ancestry (between 55% and 60% on average) than them. Based on the above, I also think it's safe to conclude that the Assyrians are going to be very similar to their ancient namesake.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 06-29-2017 at 09:38 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
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    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Nice work. Can you model Assyrians too? They probably have a good amount of Southern Levantine ancestry.

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