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Thread: R1b-KMS75, Z2103+ Yamnaya culture

  1. #21
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    The Turkish languages originated in the Western part of the Altai mountains (and their adjacent areas). They started to expand westwards only from the Early Middle Ages on.

    In the first centuries AD, the steppes of Central Asia were overwhelmingly Iranian-speaking (Sakha, escites, etc....). Central Asia was "turkized" after the Göktürk expansion. Perhaps, it was then when the patrilineal ancestors of the Bashkirs acquired the proto-Turkish language and also their 25% East Asian autosomal component.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    Are you sure this man's an ethnic Bedouin and not a "mainstream" Iraqi Muslim with some Central Asian ancestry (hence the fact that he's R1b-KMS75). I'm asking you this question, because I know for a fact that Bedouins are a very patriarchal people and are for that very reason quite homogeneous in terms of Y-DNA (they are basically almost all J1, with some occasional E-M35.1, T, J2 and/or R1a-Z93).
    Yfull shows 3 results https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y20993/.
    formed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 4700 ybp - the space for speculation is wide.
    The first one is Bashkirian R-Y20993*. That one must be the source.
    The other 2 are downstream R-Y21707: a Dagestani and the Iraqi one. That may have been the trajectory.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    The first one is Bashkirian R-Y20993*. That one must be the source.
    The other 2 are downstream R-Y21707: a Dagestani and the Iraqi one. That may have been the trajectory.
    The Bashkir lineage (marked as Y20993* on the YFull tree) cannot be a source of clade Y21707, as these are simply two modern lineages under Y20993 that are parallel to each other. Also, the TMRCA age for clade Y21707 is about 2800 years (according to YFull), so this subclade of clade Y20993 cannot be of Bashkir origin. Instead, it seems most likely that both these lineages (ie. the Bashkir one and the Dagestani-Iraqi one) descend from a common ancient (non-Turkic and almost certainly pre-Scytho-Sarmatian and pre-Iranian) ancestor located somewhere on the Pontic-Caspian steppe.
    Last edited by Michał; 06-27-2017 at 11:52 PM.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    Very few Bashkirs did auDNA testing. Bulat published his own results: the Eastern Asian component is at around 25%, which should be typical.


    Have at it
    COUNTRY REGION CITY/TOWN yDNA mtDNA POPULATION GEDMATCH USERNAME STANDARD SEX

    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 1 M772165 Bashkir3_1 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 2 M762761 Bashkir14 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 3 M420554 Bashkir12 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 4 M592377 Bashkir11 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 5 M868779 Bashkir6 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 6 M074377 Bashkir19 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 7 M817894 Bashkir20 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 8 M819114 Bashkir15 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 9 M519852 Bashkir17 V3 M


    puntDNAL K13 Results

    POPULATION West_Asia NE_Europe Americas Siberia Oceania South_Asia NE_Asia East_Africa SE_Asia SW_Europe SW_Asia West_Africa South_Africa
    Bashkir - 1 11.55 30.96 3.11 24.07 1.47 3.57 9.42 2.29 0.66 11.7 0.68 0 0.5
    Bashkir - 2 13.38 33.04 2.77 24.43 0.24 0 11.24 0.21 1.37 10.53 1.96 0 0.83
    Bashkir - 3 14.23 31.53 2.2 22.27 0.77 4.48 13.63 1.25 0 6.65 2.51 0.48 0
    Bashkir - 4 13.26 28.71 2.5 25.54 1.32 1.76 12.73 0 1.21 10.64 0.83 1.51 0
    Bashkir - 5 12.82 30.94 3.95 23.32 0.48 4.4 10.57 0 1.13 10.55 1.83 0 0
    Bashkir - 6 12.19 31.73 3.23 27.73 0.85 0.85 11.41 0 0 10.06 0.86 0.56 0.54
    Bashkir - 7 13.85 29.57 2.64 26.59 0.28 1.04 12.34 0.31 0.79 11.03 0.87 0 0.64
    Bashkir - 8 14.14 25.82 2.66 25.68 0.69 3.55 11.19 0.22 2.36 12.49 0.56 0 0.65
    Bashkir - 9 13.08 27.33 3.3 27.88 0 3.59 12.06 0.7 0 9.75 1.78 0.13 0.4
    RUSSIA; BASHKORTOSTAN - BASHKIR 13.16666667 29.95888889 2.928888889 25.27888889 0.677777778 2.582222222 11.62111111 0.553333333 0.835555556 10.37777778 1.32 0.297777778 0.395555556
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 06-28-2017 at 06:50 AM.
    If old noir black & white photography tickles your fancy: Hidden Content
    [I do, respectfully, ask that one doesn't repost, rehost, copy, save, or share the family photos -- such old personal family photos are rare in South Asia, and I would like to share them with those who are curious; I hope I do not regret the decision. The rest of the pictures are publically available online, so do with as you like!]

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Have at it
    COUNTRY REGION CITY/TOWN yDNA mtDNA POPULATION GEDMATCH USERNAME STANDARD SEX

    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 1 M772165 Bashkir3_1 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 2 M762761 Bashkir14 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 3 M420554 Bashkir12 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 4 M592377 Bashkir11 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 5 M868779 Bashkir6 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 6 M074377 Bashkir19 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 7 M817894 Bashkir20 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 8 M819114 Bashkir15 V3 M
    RUSSIA BASHKORTOSTAN BASHKIR 9 M519852 Bashkir17 V3 M


    puntDNAL K13 Results

    POPULATION West_Asia NE_Europe Americas Siberia Oceania South_Asia NE_Asia East_Africa SE_Asia SW_Europe SW_Asia West_Africa South_Africa
    Bashkir - 1 11.55 30.96 3.11 24.07 1.47 3.57 9.42 2.29 0.66 11.7 0.68 0 0.5
    Bashkir - 2 13.38 33.04 2.77 24.43 0.24 0 11.24 0.21 1.37 10.53 1.96 0 0.83
    Bashkir - 3 14.23 31.53 2.2 22.27 0.77 4.48 13.63 1.25 0 6.65 2.51 0.48 0
    Bashkir - 4 13.26 28.71 2.5 25.54 1.32 1.76 12.73 0 1.21 10.64 0.83 1.51 0
    Bashkir - 5 12.82 30.94 3.95 23.32 0.48 4.4 10.57 0 1.13 10.55 1.83 0 0
    Bashkir - 6 12.19 31.73 3.23 27.73 0.85 0.85 11.41 0 0 10.06 0.86 0.56 0.54
    Bashkir - 7 13.85 29.57 2.64 26.59 0.28 1.04 12.34 0.31 0.79 11.03 0.87 0 0.64
    Bashkir - 8 14.14 25.82 2.66 25.68 0.69 3.55 11.19 0.22 2.36 12.49 0.56 0 0.65
    Bashkir - 9 13.08 27.33 3.3 27.88 0 3.59 12.06 0.7 0 9.75 1.78 0.13 0.4
    RUSSIA; BASHKORTOSTAN - BASHKIR 13.16666667 29.95888889 2.928888889 25.27888889 0.677777778 2.582222222 11.62111111 0.553333333 0.835555556 10.37777778 1.32 0.297777778 0.395555556
    Raw files of these Gedmatch IDs uploaded to Gedmatch by myself. Their source was Yunusbayev's paper.
    Y-dna: L1b*-M317 (Pontic Cluster, PH8+) Anatolian or Caucasian lineage
    (Turkish, Greek, Armenian, Hemshin, Laz, Megrelian, Georgian, Chechen, Kabardin, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Iraqi matches)


    Y-dna of maternal grandfather: R1b1a2a2-Z2103 (L584+) Steppe/Yamnaya PIE (Armenian, Hittite-Luwian, Cimmerian, Scythian, Mitanni or Median) or Turkificated lineage in the Central Asia?

    Mtdna: U7a3 Indo-Iranic East Iranian or Turkic Steppe?

    Autosomal Summary
     
    3/4 West Asian
    1/4 Central Asian

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    The Bashkir lineage (marked as Y20993* on the YFull tree) cannot be a source of clade Y21707, as these are simply two modern lineages under Y20993 that are parallel to each other. Also, the TMRCA age for clade Y21707 is about 2800 years (according to YFull), so this subclade of clade Y20993 cannot be of Bashkir origin. Instead, it seems most likely that both these lineages (ie. the Bashkir one and the Dagestani-Iraqi one) descend from a common ancient (non-Turkic and almost certainly pre-Scytho-Sarmatian and pre-Iranian) ancestor located somewhere on the Pontic-Caspian steppe.
    Alright, more like the wider area, along the Volga and the Belaya river, and the Kama river, all together with the Bashkiria Republic area. I mean the Eastern Yamnaya part.
    Those both lineages should have gained enough mutations since then, obviously. The Bashkirian testee did not show any new SNPs - anyway, he should be very close to the source.
    Only one evidence sample along the track to Mesopotamia.
    Last edited by kosmonomad; 06-28-2017 at 11:33 PM.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    Raw files of these Gedmatch IDs uploaded to Gedmatch by myself. Their source was Yunusbayev's paper.
    Ahh you are Caspianod!? Thanks for uploading so many samples to Gedmatch, they were useful. I'll PM you in you in a bit, I have some questions. (Like do you know the HG of the samples?)
    If old noir black & white photography tickles your fancy: Hidden Content
    [I do, respectfully, ask that one doesn't repost, rehost, copy, save, or share the family photos -- such old personal family photos are rare in South Asia, and I would like to share them with those who are curious; I hope I do not regret the decision. The rest of the pictures are publically available online, so do with as you like!]

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    The Bashkirian testee did not show any new SNPs - anyway, he should be very close to the source.
    This is incorrect. The Bashkir lineage shows about as many SNPs under Y20993 as the Iraqi lineage. When counting the mutations from the comBED region only, they show 34 and 33 mutations downstream of Y20993, respectively. The only reason why the Bashkir lineage is classified as Y20993* is that no other lineage from this particular subclade under Y20993 has been tested so far. It has nothing to do with the "closeness to the source", and we are currently unable to determine whether the most recent common ancestor of the Bashkir and Dagestani-Iraqi subclades lived closer to the modern Bashkiria or rather to North Caucasus/Dagestan.

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  17. #29
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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    BC or BP?
    For Indo-Aryan, Poltavka?

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