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Thread: R1b-KMS75, Z2103+ Yamnaya culture

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    BC or BP?
    For Indo-Aryan, Poltavka?
    1. BC

    2.

    The descendants of the Yamnaya culture's population - 2. The Sarmatians. Motives in the epos 'Ural-batir' about ancient migrations

    The scheme of Atanas Kumbarov and Sergey Malyshev[2] clearly shows which snps were characteristic of the ancient bearers of these archaeological cultures, and who is now by the male line the direct descendants of the Yamnaya culture, Poltavka and part of the early Sarmatians of Pokrovka.

    These data from DNA-archeology show us that the Yamnaya culture (R1b-Z2103, Z2106 +, Z2108 +, KMS67 +, KMS75 +) are the direct genetic ancestors of Poltavkinians (R1b-KMS75 +), while the Poltavkinians are in turn the direct ancestors of part of the early Sarmatians of Pokrovka (R1b-KMS88 +).

    This all sequence of snps Z2103 +> Z2106 +> Z2108 +> KMS67 +> KMS75 +> KMS88 + — is found among Bashkirs, Lezgins and Iraqis. Snps Z2103, Z2106 and Z2108, with separate clusters separated from them, are also found among a part of Germans, Slavs, Indo-Aryans, Iranians and Arabs.

    Based on the modern geography of the R1b-Z2103 sublayer distribution, and also according to paleo-DNA data, it can be concluded that the western migration of Z2103 sub-warehouse carriers has gone to Germany, Greece and the Baltic. But the eastern migration of Z2103's carriers was along the line — Z2106, Z2108, KMS75, KMS67 and KMS88, and moved accordingly through the Black Sea to the east to the Caucasus and the Ural.

    In this study, I would like to touch on the issues of the epic tradition of the Bashkirs, namely, from the epos "Ural-batir", which, in my opinion, has preserved the echoes of ancient events from the life of the distant ancestors of the Bashkirs, i.e. Of the population of Yamnaya culture (R1b) and the Battle Axe culture (R1a).


    Look at here -->> http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=4_17062017_7_4


    Last edited by Bulat; 06-30-2017 at 06:58 AM.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    The descendants of the Yamnaya culture's population - Bashkirs from the Buryjan and Singran clans, R1b-KMS75 subclade

    the modern phenotypes of some Bashkirian Buryjans and Singrans practically identically repeat the phenotypes of ancient representatives of Yamnaya culture, that is, many anthropological features characteristic of their distant ancestors-Yamnaya population have been preserved in many Buryjans and Singrans. Below are the phenotypes of R1b-KMS75, both ancient (Yamnaya) and modern (Bashkirs). Phenotypes of Bashkirs R1b-KMS75 strongly resemble phenotypes of men from Yamnaya culture.



    As you can see, in addition to the genetic evidence of the Bashkirs and their ancestors belonging to the KMS75 subclade, we also have anthropological evidence of the origin of the Bashkirian Buryjan and Singran from the population of the Yamnaya archaeological culture.



    Look at here

    http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=4_17062017_7_3
    Bashkirs have way too much East Eurasian ancestry to have the phenotypes of Yamnaya people. Based of reconstructions Yamnaya look along the lines of North Caucasus people. Which makes sense as the groups with a good amount of direct Yamnaya ancestry , like Kalash/Kho/ Nuristani in NW South Asia also often have the same kind of pseudo North Caucasus looks.

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  5. #33
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    Sorry, but reconstructed Yamnaya don't look like Kavkas people to me, and I've seen plenty of them.
     


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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Bashkirs have way too much East Eurasian ancestry to have the phenotypes of Yamnaya people. Based of reconstructions Yamnaya look along the lines of North Caucasus people. Which makes sense as the groups with a good amount of direct Yamnaya ancestry , like Kalash/Kho/ Nuristani in NW South Asia also often have the same kind of pseudo North Caucasus looks.
    A comparison of Bulat's and a Russian member's Family Finder maps.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9832152&type=3

    /grumble on
    And I think FTDNA are being hypocrytical about spread of the Eastern Slavic component /grumble off

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  9. #35
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by kosmonomad View Post
    A comparison of Bulat's and a Russian member's Family Finder maps.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9832152&type=3

    /grumble on
    And I think FTDNA are being hypocrytical about spread of the Eastern Slavic component /grumble off
    Yes of course my Roxolanian brother.

    What the difference between autosomes (ie all genetic lines - male and female) from descendants of farmers from descendants of nomads. I will answer by the scheme. Here on the 1st map - autosomes of a settled Russian, on the second map - autosomes of the steppe Bashkir. The conclusion is obvious, the descendants of farmers are clearly tied to their region, whereas descendants of nomads are children of planet Earth, because They have autosomes almost all from over the world

    Last edited by Bulat; 07-05-2017 at 12:35 AM. Reason: autosomes, farmers, nomads
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    The descendants of the Yamnaya culture's population - Bashkirs from the Buryjan and Singran clans, R1b-KMS75 subclade

    the modern phenotypes of some Bashkirian Buryjans and Singrans practically identically repeat the phenotypes of ancient representatives of Yamnaya culture, that is, many anthropological features characteristic of their distant ancestors-Yamnaya population have been preserved in many Buryjans and Singrans. Below are the phenotypes of R1b-KMS75, both ancient (Yamnaya) and modern (Bashkirs). Phenotypes of Bashkirs R1b-KMS75 strongly resemble phenotypes of men from Yamnaya culture.



    As you can see, in addition to the genetic evidence of the Bashkirs and their ancestors belonging to the KMS75 subclade, we also have anthropological evidence of the origin of the Bashkirian Buryjan and Singran from the population of the Yamnaya archaeological culture.



    Look at here

    http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=4_17062017_7_3
    Not really. They were Caucasoid, not Mong-Euro mix like Bashkirs. As Soviet anthropologist who classified them said. BTW there are many Yamna reconstructions.
    Reconstruction you posted is clealry Caucasoid.


    Or this


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  13. #37
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    I think these are better suited

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  15. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ral View Post
    I think these are better suited
    Those are Androvono/Sintashta reconstructions they have heavy EEF admixture from mainland Europe. They look like modern day Russians tbh, Yamnaya people are very different in that almost half their genome is CHG/Zagrosian like.
    Last edited by pegasus; 09-04-2017 at 09:50 PM.

  16. #39
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    Interesting map.Something I've noticed is that Caucasians also seem to get British autosomal matches.So far I've seen Ossetians , Dagestanis and Chechens come up with between 5 and 12 % British autosomes.

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  18. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Pretty obviously that represents a change the ancestors of the Bashkirs underwent.

    My y-dna ancestors probably spoke Welsh and before that Brythonic, but I speak English now.
    Agree. They are probably Turkified Indo-Europeans.

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