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Thread: hunting for old timee Apples

  1. #1
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    hunting for old timee Apples

    I've seen several stories of a similar nature with a variety of fruits and veggies. Now that people are realizing some of the problems that come with huge agrabuisness farming, they are looking for the 'heirloom' or older type examples of a variety of species so we not only dont 'lose' them permanently, but can get them back into at least small production so the varieties can be enjoyed.

    I have personally sought out a variety of the hierloom popcorn types, and while not always easy to find, and often somewhat more expensive, I can assure people that these 'ancient' types are available and many of them are way tastier than the regular 'yellow' varieties you generally find

    In any case, back to the apples...


    "I Love These Old-Time Apple Sleuths"
    http://pictorial.jezebel.com/i-love-...ths-1795697347

    Mike
    Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, b.Tipperary Co. Ire. d. Kincardine Ont.

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  3. #2
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    Back about 1980, there was an orchard near Faversham in Kent that was going to be bulldozed.
    It housed a large collection of old apples and pears.
    The locals kicked up a bit of a stink but were losing the fight until Charles, Prince of Wales joined the fray and said this is something we need to keep.
    Now these 2,000+ apple varieties are preserved.
    http://www.brogdalecollections.org/

    I wish we could get some of the older varieties here in Australia - even from 25 years ago.
    They have bred down the amount of healthy antioxidant tannins, probably to appeal to children who expect everything to be (by my tastebuds) overly sweet.
    All of the red apple varieties commercially available in stores are affected. Only the green apples are untouched.
    Last edited by Saetro; 06-04-2017 at 08:02 PM.

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  5. #3
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    Here is the ultimate in old time apples - the original original in Central Asia.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cr.../#.wt8fbrmrikg

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    I didn't know there were so many varieties of apple. The only ones I've tried are red delicious, golden delicious, granny smith, fuji, and gala. I think I've had a McIntosh too.
    The gala apple was really good.

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    I was dimly aware of a preservation project run by a professor at James Madison University. It was easy enough to find older info about him (Elwood Fisher), but regrettably I also found his obituary -- only a couple of months ago, at the age of 90. I'm not sure about the apples, somebody else may have been tending the orchard recently.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.1930c4b10703

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    One Winter I researched the history of the Milam Apple for my family history website. In 1905, the United States Department of Agriculture published a bulletin entitled Nomenclature of the Apple: A Catalog of the Known Varieties Referred to in American Publications from 1804 to 1904. It ran to almost 400 pages and listed 17,000 apples by name. By reading books on fruit trees dating to 1854 and State Horticultural Societies publications, I could piece together a good history for how the Milam Apple spread from Virginia to California. Here are a couple vignettes:

    Pioneers migrating to the mid west brought seeds from the best fruits in their region with them to plant. But most fruit trees grown from seeds {seedlings} were mediocre and most of their apples were only fit for making cider. Warder wrote: "...one in ten of our seedling orchard trees may be ranked as "good" but not one in a hundred could be styled as "best".

    Warder in 1867 described the Milam Apple: "This is another little Southern favorite to be found by almost every cabin in parts of the { Mid } West. Whole orchards have been planted with sprouts of the mother trees, among the people to whom the art of grafting was an unheard of mystery. Now distributed by nurserymen all over the country.

    E. C. Hathaway recording the history of La Salle County for the same Society in 1870 wrote: "The first orchards south of the Illinois River were set in 1833 or 1834....In 1837 Curtis and Sons, of Edgar County, came through here with a covered wagon loaded with trees, drawn by oxen. The wagon contained what are now the old orchards in the southern part of this county...The varieties were largely Milam and Rawles’ Janet...

    Doctor J. A. Kennicott, a Chicago horticulturist, who is quoted by Elliott in 1865: "Many of our varieties of the first trees transplanted in Western Illinois and southern Wisconsin were disseminated by tree pedlars from the region of the Wabash in Indiana and central-eastern Illinois....Among these pedlar’s trees the Red June is decidedly the most valuable, and the Milam the most abundant."

    Writing in 1869, O. B. Curtis elaborated: "The Milam has been planted more extensively in the orchards of this county than any other... There are today more bearing trees of it than any six others....It is as popular here among apples as the Bartlett is among pears....Some of the learned nurserymen of the West have kindly suggested that the Milam was not a very good apple; but the farmers in old Edgar County continue to grow and appreciate it as one of the indispensible varieties."

    In 2013 Tom Burford authored Apples of North America describing "192 exceptional varieties". The Milam apple is one of them.

    Milam Apple, Rockville, MD 1906.jpg

    http://www.milaminvirginia.com/milam_apple.html
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Celt_??; 06-22-2017 at 08:53 PM.
    FTDNA Big-Y SNP results: R1b-U152+, L2+, Z367+, Z384+, L20+, CTS9733+ { S10068 @ YFull }
    The Avatar is an image of my website's home page: Hidden Content - an history of Thomas Mylam and his 6 sons as found in Virginia, USA, court records from 1738 onward.

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    very cool snap shot into the past!

    Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by Celt_?? View Post
    One Winter I researched the history of the Milam Apple for my family history website. In 1905, the United States Department of Agriculture published a bulletin entitled*Nomenclature of the Apple: A Catalog of the Known Varieties Referred to in American Publications from 1804 to 1904. It ran to almost 400 pages and listed 17,000 apples by name. By reading books on fruit trees dating to 1854 and State Horticultural Societies publications, I could piece together a good history for how the Milam Apple spread from Virginia to California. Here are a couple vignettes:

    Pioneers migrating to the mid west brought seeds from the best fruits in their region with them to plant. But most fruit trees grown from seeds {seedlings} were mediocre and most of their apples were only fit for making cider. Warder wrote: "...one in ten of our seedling orchard trees may be ranked as "good" but not one in a hundred could be styled as "best".

    Warder in 1867 described the Milam Apple: "This is another little Southern favorite to be found by almost every cabin in parts of the { Mid } West. Whole orchards have been planted with sprouts of the mother trees, among the people to whom the art of grafting was an unheard of mystery. Now distributed by nurserymen all over the country.

    E. C. Hathaway recording the history of La Salle County for the same Society in 1870 wrote: "The first orchards south of the Illinois River were set in 1833 or 1834....In 1837 Curtis and Sons, of Edgar County, came through here with a covered wagon loaded with trees, drawn by oxen. The wagon contained what are now the old orchards in the southern part of this county...The varieties were largely Milam and Rawles’ Janet...

    Writing in 1869, O. B. Curtis elaborated: "The Milam has been planted more extensively in the orchards of this county than any other... There are today more bearing trees of it than any six others....It is as popular here among apples as the Bartlett is among pears....Some of the learned nurserymen of the West have kindly suggested that the Milam was not a very good apple; but the farmers in old Edgar County continue to grow and appreciate it as one of the indispensible varieties."

    .Doctor J. A. Kennicott, a Chicago horticulturist, who is quoted by Elliott in 1865: "Many of our varieties of the first trees transplanted in Western Illinois and southern Wisconsin were disseminated by tree pedlars from the region of the Wabash in Indiana and central-eastern Illinois....Among these pedlar’s trees the Red June is decidedly the most valuable, and the Milam the most abundant."

    Milam Apple, Rockville, MD 1906.jpg

    http://www.milaminvirginia.com/milam_apple.html
    Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, b.Tipperary Co. Ire. d. Kincardine Ont.

    Y-DNA-RL21-L513-Z23516-BY11142('lost Irish 'C' boys?')

    FTDNA=P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L513+ U198- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L705- L577- L193- L159.2- L1333-
    Big-Y=Z23516+
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    Geno 2 (N.G.P.) H1bd+

    Whalen/Phelan DNA Surname Project
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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celt_?? View Post
    One Winter I researched the history of the Milam Apple for my family history website. In 1905, the United States Department of Agriculture published a bulletin entitled*Nomenclature of the Apple: A Catalog of the Known Varieties Referred to in American Publications from 1804 to 1904. It ran to almost 400 pages and listed 17,000 apples by name. By reading books on fruit trees dating to 1854 and State Horticultural Societies publications, I could piece together a good history for how the Milam Apple spread from Virginia to California.
    I forget whether I actually own that apple book, or perhaps just photographed some pages from it at an Arlington VA "old & rare" bookshop I patronized. Anyway it is familiar, for a reason similar to yours. Throughout the 1980s I was researching the cultural impact of the Delaware Valley (and upper Chesapeake Bay) colonial settlement of Swedes and Finns, "New Sweden." This had mostly to do with its 350th anniversary celebration in 1988 (although I jumped the gun and got out one little museum exhibition catalog for the 350th anniversary of the Maryland colony, in 1984). The Rambo apple and the Stalcup apple are two more or less "heirloom" varieties introduced respectively by members of those two New Sweden families.

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