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Thread: Huns among Anglo-Saxons? No, no and again no!

  1. #51
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    Unjust posting
    Last edited by Finn; 07-07-2017 at 09:34 PM.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Unjust posting
    My turn to declare mea culpa.

    "Catherine Hills, moreover, has shown that the burial practices employed at the largest Norfolk cemetery yet excavated, at Spong Hill near North Elmham, are so close to those practised in parts of northern Europe that they surely must represent the graves of people of Continental origin or descent. More than this, she has demonstrated that the cemetery's closest parallels are with the Anglian, rather than with the Saxon, areas of the Continent. Hills compared the burials at Spong Hill with those at Suderbrarup and Bordesholm in Schleswig-Holstein, and at Westerwanna in Lower Saxony. The range of grave-goods found at all the sites was similar, but the closest similarities were consistently between Spong and the Schleswig sites. Thus for example 'The most characteristic late fourth to fifth century burials at Suderbrarup seem to be those which contain sets of miniatures with combs, in pots which either have no decoration or a horizontal/vertical bossed and grooved design. Very similar burials occur at Spong Hill' (Hills, forthcoming).

    The Anglian affinities were not entirely clear-cut. In particular, the Spong pottery urns, with their use of stamped ornament, showed closest affinities with those from the Westerwanna cemetery."

    Source: The Origins of Norfolk by Tom Williamson, MUP 1993.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
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    279 of my direct ancestors recorded. 277 appear SE English. 2,400+ names in my kid's joint family tree.
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  4. #53
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    To accompany my last post.

    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
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    279 of my direct ancestors recorded. 277 appear SE English. 2,400+ names in my kid's joint family tree.
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  6. #54
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    I do however feel that we have to be aware that rising elites in SE Britain, during the 6th and early 7th centuries AD, may have been guilty of stamping heroic North Sea ancestry on their emerging kingdoms that may have far from represented all of their subjects.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
    279 of my direct ancestors recorded. 277 appear SE English. 2,400+ names in my kid's joint family tree.
    Hidden Content .

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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    Having said that, analysis of artifacts from the earliest Norfolk cremation cemeteries match closest to the area of South East Schleswig-Holstein. To myself, that suggests that here in East Anglia, the dominant ethnicity was indeed from Angeln in Northern Germany.

    But dominant ethnicity doesn't mean the only ethnicity.
    Precisely. That's pretty much the approach of Nicholas Higham and Martin Ryan, The Anglo-Saxon World (Yale University Press 2013), which I strongly recommend as a excellent compendium of current thinking. It is massive and goes into far more detail on the Anglo-Saxons than I will do. My forthcoming book will be not only much shorter, at c. 50,000 words, but has a much wider chronological and geographical scope. So I get one chapter (5,000 words) for the Anglo-Saxon advent. Things that they cover at length get a paragraph from me.

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  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    I do however feel that we have to be aware that rising elites in SE Britain, during the 6th and early 7th centuries AD, may have been guilty of stamping heroic North Sea ancestry on their emerging kingdoms that may have far from represented all of their subjects.
    The 'Invisible Britons' get a plug for aDNA testing from me.

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  12. #57
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    On the Longobards :-
    "They were also known by their original ethnic name, the Winnili ('Winn' probably being Germanic for 'striving' and 'being victorious', added to an 'il/el' diminutive suffix and a Latin plural, '-il', producing something along the lines of 'the little tribe that succeeds in fighting' or 'the little winners'). The later name of that part of the tribe that apparently migrated out of Scandinavia was the Langobards, or 'hound clan'. Their founder is sometimes named as Sceafa Longbeardum, the Sceaf of Angeln who perhaps is confused with an early Langobard ruler of the same name, or hints at an early connection between the two tribes during (or before) their sojourn on the southern Baltic coastline in the first and second centuries AD."

    "c.166 - c.300
    The Langobards disappear from the historical record. One theory to explain the reason involves their occupation of territory that is so deep into the interior of Inner Germania that they are obscured by the growing tribal confederations that lie closer to the Roman empire. Another is their possible subjugation by one of those newly forming tribal confederations, that of the Saxons. The latter idea is supported by an entry in the Codex Gothanus which states that the Langobards are subjugated by the Saxons around 300.

    "c.440/450
    The Germanic Hundings or Hundingas (the 'hound clan') who are mentioned in Widsith are known for their feud with the Wulfings, a clan associated with the early Danish kings. The feud is most likely to be a conflict between the Eastern Geats and the Langobards (the hound-clan), and some scholars have suggested that Hund may be the same person as Lamicho (although the dating does not align at all). Instead, there may be a confusion between a well-known southern Scandinavian feud and a different one here which involves the Langobards and their enemies, the Vulgares (Huns). The latter are defeated about this year." John

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...CO4k85m2b-MxbQ
    Last edited by JohnHowellsTyrfro; 07-08-2017 at 06:06 AM.

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    The 'Invisible Britons' get a plug for aDNA testing from me.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    My turn to declare mea culpa. .
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    [/URL]
    Wow what a coincidence! Last week a got a message form a very old genealogy crack, he made it presumable that the roots of my family lay in Middag-Humsterland:

    "Humsterland is derived from Hugmerthi, Hugumarchi or Hugmerki, which is the march or residential area of ​​the Hugas. With that last word, the Chauken were presumably indicated." (Dutch Wiki)

    You don't need so much fantasy to see the English huge in Hugas, that's also the etymological root of the (Latin name) Chauki.

    One of the oldest cultural area's around the North Sea. National Landscape and nominated for the Unesco World Heritage.

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middag...umsterland.jpg

    Last edited by Finn; 07-18-2017 at 06:52 AM.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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