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Thread: Huns among Anglo-Saxons? No, no and again no!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Although Shore (1906) is obviously outdated he gives a somewhat cryptic clue about the "Huns":: " The `Hundings` also are alluded to in the `Traveller`s Song,`
    Thank you so much! Yes I see the reference to the Hundingas in Widsith, treated quite separately from the Huns. That's excellent. Makes so much more sense. I don't think we can turn them into the people of Hunsingo though.
    Last edited by Jean M; 07-05-2017 at 03:09 PM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Thank you so much! Yes I see the reference to the Hundingas in Widsith, treated quite separately from the Huns. That's excellent. Makes so much more sense. I don't think we can turn them into the people of Hunsingo though.
    Yes, most probably because hunsingo or hunusgo is related to the rivier Hunze. Besides that there was most probably a Hunen tribe also sometimes located in Drenthe, Northeastern Netherlands. Hun is etymological related to *heuniz that means high or giant. To make it more complicated the Chauci tribe, well known pirates along the Channel, is related to the word *hauhaz that also means high. The Chauci were around the big migration usurped by the Saxons. So that gives a probably second possibility were the Chauci related "high people" from northeastern Netherlands also called Hunen?
    Last edited by Finn; 07-06-2017 at 07:01 AM.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Thank you so much! Yes I see the reference to the Hundingas in Widsith, treated quite separately from the Huns. That's excellent. Makes so much more sense. I don't think we can turn them into the people of Hunsingo though.
    Second thought. Hundinga, is indeed completely different and related to -hund nowadays German Hund, Dutch Hond, English hound.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Second thought. Hundinga, is indeed completely different and related to -hund nowadays German Hund, Dutch Hond, English hound.
    I think you have to treat surname origins with a large pinch of salt, but I came across this when looking into my own surname (actually Howell) :-
    "The second possible source of the surname is English, and locational from a parish in South Lincolnshire called Howell. Recorded as "Huuelle" in the Domesday Book of 1086, and as "Huwell(e)" in the 1190 Pipe Rolls of that county, the place was so called from the Olde English pre 7th Century personal byname "Huna", from "hun", bear cub, with "well(a)", spring, stream. "

    John

    Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Howell#ixzz4m2VPpzBO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Second thought. Hundinga, is indeed completely different and related to -hund nowadays German Hund, Dutch Hond, English hound.
    There's a large village here in East Yorkshire overlooking the North Sea called Hunmanby. It's named as 'Hundemanbi' in Domesday Book, 1086 AD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    I think you have to treat surname origins with a large pinch of salt, but I came across this when looking into my own surname (actually Howell) :-
    "The second possible source of the surname is English, and locational from a parish in South Lincolnshire called Howell. Recorded as "Huuelle" in the Domesday Book of 1086, and as "Huwell(e)" in the 1190 Pipe Rolls of that county, the place was so called from the Olde English pre 7th Century personal byname "Huna", from "hun", bear cub, with "well(a)", spring, stream. "

    John

    Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Howell#ixzz4m2VPpzBO
    Welle is indeed in my lower Saxon language (former) common used....and the possibility of a huge well?
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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    Quote Originally Posted by corner View Post
    There's a large village here in East Yorkshire overlooking the North Sea called Hunmanby. It's named as 'Hundemanbi' in Domesday Book, 1086 AD.
    Who says people have to be consistent over thousand years? Etymological are hun and hund quite different at least in the Saxon language (or may be the come together in being a giant beast?). But I think that the appreciation of hund in the christian context is quite different from a pagan one... that could cause a differentiation through the years.....
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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  15. #18
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    I have decided to go for a generalisation.

    Perhaps Bede mistakenly read 'Hunni' in place of a Germanic tribal name unfamiliar to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    I have decided to go for a generalisation.
    I sincerely hope that you reconsider it! Hunnen (Latin Hunni) or German Hünnen = a Saxon tribe, the Dutch etymological dictionary of 1971 explores this (but unfortunately you can't read Dutch) So in the end also a matter of trust.....

    PS als found on wiki, "De naam is net als bij hunebedden geen verwijzing naar Hunnen maar mogelijk naar "Hūnen" ofwel Saksen." (The name is, as with "hunebeds" (megalithic-Finn) , no reference to the Huns, but possibly to "Hünnen" or Saxons.)

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunneschans

    A german source:
    https://www.noz.de/lokales/lotte/art...ery&0&0&589331

    Neben den Hunnen könnten mit Hünen auch Sachsen gemeint sein, die nach dem 3. Jahrhundert in die Region Niedersachsens und Westfalens einwanderten. So zumindest die Einschätzung von Jan de Vries, der sich in den 1930er-Jahren ausführlich dem Hünenthema widmete. Als Indiz führt de Vries die Flurnamen Hünenburg und Frankenburg bei Rheine an. Aufgrund seiner Lage ist der Halener Hünenweg eindeutig dem benachbarten, sogenannten Hünengrab zuzuordnen. Ob es letztlich die Sachsen, die Hunnen oder doch die sagenhaften Riesen waren, die bei der Benennung für das Megalithgrab Pate standen, kann vermutlich nicht endgültig geklärt werden. Die mächtigen Sagengestalten dürften aber spätestens seit der mittelalterlichen Prägung des Wortes Hüne die Nase vorn gehabt haben.
    (In addition to the Huns, the Saxons could also be called Hünen, who after the 3rd century immigrated to the Lower Saxony and Westphalia region. At least the assessment of Jan de Vries, who devoted himself extensively to the theme of the Hens in the 1930s. As an indication, de Vries leads the Flurnamen Hünenburg and Frankenburg near Rheine. Due to its location, the Halener Hünenweg is unambiguously attributed to the adjacent so-called "Hünengrab". Whether it was ultimately the Saxons, the Huns, or the legendary giants who stood for the name of the megalithic god can not be finally settled. However, the mighty legends have been at the forefront since the mediaeval imprint of the word Hüne.)
    Last edited by Finn; 07-06-2017 at 12:03 PM.
    "Finn, son of Folcwald,
    should honour the Danes.."

    Beowulf

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  19. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I sincerely hope that you reconsider it!
    How about:

    Perhaps the 'Hunni' in question were not the well-known followers of Attila, but a more obscure Germanic group.
    ??

    The problem here is that I can't devote a lot of space to this one item.

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