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newtoboard
01-22-2014, 07:57 PM
No idea if this will ever come out but I'm curious about people predictions.

I think there will be an absence of R1a-Z93. No O or Q whatsoever. Elevated frequencies of C5a, D, H, L1a, R2a and J2b. Lower frequencies of J2a, G2a and L1c. Maybe some P and R para groups present too but I doubt it.

soulblighter
01-22-2014, 08:28 PM
DId you contact them? My guess is C5a, H, L1, R2, P, J2 and G1.

Mehrdad
01-22-2014, 08:42 PM
No idea if this will ever come out but I'm curious about people predictions.

I think there will be an absence of R1a-Z93. No O or Q whatsoever. Elevated frequencies of C5a, D, H, L1a, R2a and J2b. Lower frequencies of J2a, G2a and L1c. Maybe some P and R para groups present too but I doubt it.

If your predictions turn out to be true then the Indo-Aryan theory could be true, as R1a-Z93 being foreign. However if its the other way around that would also be interesting.

I'm still conflicted with the idea that a small group of R1a-Z93 could spawn 15-20% of all males in South Asia in such a short period.

newtoboard
01-22-2014, 08:49 PM
DId you contact them? My guess is C5a, H, L1, R2, P, J2 and G1.

No I didn't. I was hoping someone with a professional background in genetics would.

newtoboard
01-22-2014, 08:56 PM
If your predictions turn out to be true then the Indo-Aryan theory could be true, as R1a-Z93 being foreign. However if its the other way around that would also be interesting.

I'm still conflicted with the idea that a small group of R1a-Z93 could spawn 15-20% of all males in South Asia in such a short period.

Why small? There were multiple waves. Not to mention once Andronovo tribes learned farming from the BMAC they would have had the chance to expand their population. Combine that with their military advantage and a declining IVC whose population was migrating south and east and you get high R1a frequencies easily.

And then R1a spreading to the rest of South Asia from the IE population of NW South Asia.

I think you have the wrong picture if you think a group of R1a males Indo Europeanized everybody simultaneously. That sounds like a 20th century Aryan Invasion style theory rooted in bias. They mixed with the local population and then that mix moved on to the next region and this was likely the migration of families too.

Mehrdad
01-22-2014, 09:11 PM
They certainty put a mark in the region. The Farmana results should be interesting and answer some questions and probably create more questions about the origins of R1a-Z93.

newtoboard
01-22-2014, 11:59 PM
I wonder wham mtdna will be like. More U2, W, M, R and Hv?

DMXX
01-23-2014, 12:06 AM
I don't have much indication of what this even is, newtoboard. Looking at the suggestions, presumably some sort of Subcontinental aDNA dataset? Could you provide those of us out of the loop with a link please?

newtoboard
01-23-2014, 12:44 AM
I don't have much indication of what this even is, newtoboard. Looking at the suggestions, presumably some sort of Subcontinental aDNA dataset? Could you provide those of us out of the loop with a link please?

It is an IVC site that a Japanese team was supposed to test for aDNA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmana

parasar
01-23-2014, 12:57 AM
If your predictions turn out to be true then the Indo-Aryan theory could be true, as R1a-Z93 being foreign. However if its the other way around that would also be interesting.

I'm still conflicted with the idea that a small group of R1a-Z93 could spawn 15-20% of all males in South Asia in such a short period.

That is my thinking too. I think it possible that they are almost exclusively R-Z93 and R-M479.

Humanist
01-27-2014, 03:22 PM
Came across this link on the Harappa Project site: Scientists to study parasite eggs in Harappan graves (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2014-01-12/pune/46112293_1_harappan-rakhigarhi-farmana)


After failed attempts to undertake DNA and genome sequencing of Harappan skeletons in Farmana, Harayana, as the wet, acidic earth of the region had destroyed all DNA in the remains of the dead, archaeologists from the Deccan College Postgraduate and Research Institute have now moved towards the Harappan burials on a private land near Rakhigarhi, which is estimated to be the largest Harappan civilization site located in Hisar district, Haryana and listed among the 10 most endangered heritage sites in Asia.

....

We had earlier tried to recover and identify the DNA from the remains of the Harappan dead in Farmana, which is around 30-40 km away from Rakhigarhi. But the exercise yielded no result as the ground there is wet and acidic, which is not conducive to the survival of DNA," said Shinde.

soulblighter
01-27-2014, 03:33 PM
Came across this link on the Harappa Project site: Scientists to study parasite eggs in Harappan graves (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2014-01-12/pune/46112293_1_harappan-rakhigarhi-farmana)

Wow, that was unexpected and a total disaster!
I don't expect much out of this parasite hunt... so I guess no aDNA from south Asia in the near future....

soulblighter
02-25-2014, 03:53 PM
Dong Hoon Shin from Seoul National, seems to be leading the charge on extracting aDNA from Rakhigarhi.
Times of India completely messed up their article. He has a clarification on his blog.
http://shinpaleopathology.blogspot.com/

newtoboard
02-25-2014, 07:56 PM
Dong Hoon Shin from Seoul National, seems to be leading the charge on extracting aDNA from Rakhigarhi.
Times of India completely messed up their article. He has a clarification on his blog.
http://shinpaleopathology.blogspot.com/

Does it make a difference? I remain doubtful that any ancient DNA will be obtained.

Sein
02-25-2014, 08:20 PM
I think we can expect good things. If you take a look at the AAPA 2014 Abstracts, they've obtained ancient DNA from the Sudan, Puerto Rico, Argentina, and China. So it is a feasible prospect.

parasar
05-02-2014, 08:29 PM
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investigation/excavation-restarts-at-6000-year-old-rakhigarhi

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01872/02TH-GRANARY__1872288g.jpg
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01872/02TH-POTSHERD_1872289g.jpg
"The site belongs to the mature Harappan phase from 2600 BCE to 2000 BCE. The teams have also found artefacts, including a seal and potsherd, both inscribed with the Harappan script."
"There are about 2,000 Harappan sites in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan."
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/ancient-granary-found-in-haryana/article5966952.ece
"human skeletons in the burial mounds.
In order to know more about their origin, race, food habits, health and the diseases that plagued them, a team of scientists from Seoul National University of Medicine, South Korea has been roped in to conduct DNA testings on these skeletons."
http://www.dnaindia.com/pune/report-archaeologists-from-pune-discover-indus-civilization-artifacts-in-haryana-1981160

Mehrdad
05-02-2014, 09:18 PM
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investigation/excavation-restarts-at-6000-year-old-rakhigarhi

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01872/02TH-GRANARY__1872288g.jpg
http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/01872/02TH-POTSHERD_1872289g.jpg
"The site belongs to the mature Harappan phase from 2600 BCE to 2000 BCE. The teams have also found artefacts, including a seal and potsherd, both inscribed with the Harappan script."
"There are about 2,000 Harappan sites in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan."
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/ancient-granary-found-in-haryana/article5966952.ece
"human skeletons in the burial mounds.
In order to know more about their origin, race, food habits, health and the diseases that plagued them, a team of scientists from Seoul National University of Medicine, South Korea has been roped in to conduct DNA testings on these skeletons."
http://www.dnaindia.com/pune/report-archaeologists-from-pune-discover-indus-civilization-artifacts-in-haryana-1981160

Thanks for sharing parasar, do you know if people from the Harappan/indus civilization were burying or cremating their dead?

parasar
05-21-2014, 08:20 PM
Thanks for sharing parasar, do you know if people from the Harappan/indus civilization were burying or cremating their dead?

Burying, though in the later period there may have been a transition to cremation. http://www.harappa.com/indus2/162.html

We have burials from Mehrgarh too. Scientists have been able to study their dentistry in detail, so hopefully there's still some viable DNA that can be tested.

8000ybp

The metallurgical analysis of a copper bead from a Neolithic burial (6th millennium bc ) at Mehrgarh, Pakistan, allowed the recovery of several threads, preserved by mineralization. They were characterized according to new procedure, combining the use of a reflected-light microscope and a scanning electron microscope, and identified as cotton (Gossypium sp.). The Mehrgarh fibres constitute the earliest known example of cotton in the Old World and put the date of the first use of this textile plant back by more than a millennium. Even though it is not possible to ascertain that the fibres came from an already domesticated species, the evidence suggests an early origin, possibly in the Kachi Plain, of one of the Old World cottons.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440301907794

7000bc Mehrgarh and earlier Period I finds include wheats Triticum monococcum, durum, and diococcum. Barley also reported as a big crop as well as penned goats and Zebu.
http://books.google.com/books?id=NVygmardAA4C&pg=PA408
http://books.google.com/books?id=H3lUIIYxWkEC&pg=PA104
"Present estimates based on radiocarbon dates suggest that it arises at 7000 or 8000 BC" - Gregory L. Possehl


Not only is their larger (megadont) teeth different from West Asians and more like SE Asians, but we also know something about their dental care potentially as early as 9000ybp.
http://pages.uoregon.edu/jrlukacs/Dr.%20John%20R.%20Lukacs%20Website/downloads/MR%203%20dentmorph%20VII%20conf.pdf


we describe eleven drilled molar crowns from nine adults discovered in a Neolithic graveyard in Pakistan that dates from 7,500–9,000 years ago.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7085/images/440755a-f1.2.jpg
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v440/n7085/full/440755a.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=n6u2t7dtcEcC&pg=PA17

parasar
12-11-2015, 12:59 AM
Teeth find perhaps with some DNA from the seventh century AD.
"During an excavation at the site of the Vishwavidyalaya Shripratham Shivpura Mahavira Bhikshu Sangh that existed in seventh century, a BAD team stumbled upon five gold-plated teeth of an individual aged between 16 to 20 years, who might have been a monk, BAD Director Atul Kumar Verma told PTI.
The teeth will be sent for DNA test at Deccan College in Pune (Maharashtra), he said, adding that the report is likely to shed light about the rich cultural heritage of Telhara region during the seventh century.
Verma said that eminent archaeologist Pramod Jogelkar during a visit to the state capital earlier this week had a look at the precious gold-plated teeth found from the excavation site at Telhara.
Jogelkar recommended sending these teeth for DNA test at Pune, the BAD Director said.
Telhara was an important archaeological site carrying historical remains of the Gupta dynasty, particularly its last phase, Verma said." PTI Dec 10, 2015